Firefly River vs. Serenity River : fanfic portrayal

POSTED BY: EmpireX
UPDATED: Thursday, March 8, 2007 02:01
VIEWED: 30380
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EMPIREX

Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:19 PM

I was reading a Riverfic the other day... it was set post-BDM and River was paired up romantically with a Main Character (I don't want to say who the main character was because I'm not wanting to point fingers at a particular author or 'ship - this is an occurrance that happens a lot with Riverfic in general. It was just this particular fic that made me stop and think about it.)

For some reason, the fic wasn't clicking with me. The romantic parts made me feel a bit uneasy. I wondered why it seemed so "off". Then it hit me.

The author was writing River the way Summer had portrayed her in the series, not the movie. And that made a huge difference. In the series, River was a teenager who seemed to have reverted back to a child-like state. In the movie - I don't know if this was at Joss's direction or if Summer just grew more confidant and mature in her acting choices - River's still a bit crazy, but not with that same child-like innocence. She looks, speaks, and dresses like a woman, albeit a whimsical one.

I actually saw the movie before I watched the series, so this particular pairing makes sense to me - but this fic made the Very Beloved Main Character seem a bit - pedophilic?- which is all kinds of icky and upsetting!

I guess this post is supposed to be a helpful hint or reminder to those authors who bravely write River-fic. She certainly is a very difficult character to write for, but be aware of how you portray her in fiction. It's a big turnoff to read about a character who behaves and thinks like a fourteen year old hopping in the sack with a thirty-year-old man, doesn't matter which one.

I'm just sayin'... It's kinda ... ya know... confusing and it makes me feel dirty for reading it. Does this make any sense? What do you guys think?

ASARIAN

Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmpireX:

I was reading a Riverfic the other day... it was set post-BDM and River was paired up romantically with a Main Character (I don't want to say who the main character was because I'm not wanting to point fingers at a particular author or 'ship - this is an occurrance that happens a lot with Riverfic in general. It was just this particular fic that made me stop and think about it.)

For some reason, the fic wasn't clicking with me. The romantic parts made me feel a bit uneasy. I wondered why it seemed so "off". Then it hit me.

The author was writing River the way Summer had portrayed her in the series, not the movie. And that made a huge difference. In the series, River was a teenager who seemed to have reverted back to a child-like state. In the movie - I don't know if this was at Joss's direction or if Summer just grew more confidant and mature in her acting choices - River's still a bit crazy, but not with that same child-like innocence. She looks, speaks, and dresses like a woman, albeit a whimsical one.

I actually saw the movie before I watched the series, so this particular pairing makes sense to me - but this fic made the Very Beloved Main Character seem a bit - pedophilic?- which is all kinds of icky and upsetting!

I guess this post is supposed to be a helpful hint or reminder to those authors who bravely write River-fic. She certainly is a very difficult character to write for, but be aware of how you portray her in fiction. It's a big turnoff to read about a character who behaves and thinks like a fourteen year old hopping in the sack with a thirty-year-old man, doesn't matter which one.

I'm just sayin'... It's kinda ... ya know... confusing and it makes me feel dirty for reading it. Does this make any sense? What do you guys think?

I couldn't agree more (though, for this topic, I'd be willing to try).

Icky stuff concerning River is the main reason I don't read fanfic. And though I certainly find her beautiful, I don't think of her in terms of "sexy" or "hot". To me, the whole River persona, and her innocence, and a whole crew recognizing that innocence, and willing to protect it, is a huge part of why I love Firefly so much. All of a sudden reading how River is grappling with any of the crew -- apart from finding it all manner of distasteful to take advantage of a mentally traumatized seventeen year old girl -- really, IMNSHO, violates not just River, but the very fabric of Firefly itself.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

GORBISHUN

Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
I couldn't agree more (though, for this topic, I'd be willing to try).

Icky stuff concerning River is the main reason I don't read fanfic. And though I certainly find her beautiful, I don't think of her in terms of "sexy" or "hot". To me, the whole River persona, and her innocence, and a whole crew recognizing that innocence, and willing to protect it, is a huge part of why I love Firefly so much. All of a sudden reading how River is grappling with any of the crew -- apart from finding it all manner of distasteful to take advantage of a mentally traumatized seventeen year old girl -- really, IMNSHO, violates not just River, but the very fabric of Firefly itself.

I totally agree with that, Asarian. That's exactly how I feel.

_________________________________________
«°-:-°»Also... I can kill you with my brain.«°-:-°»

EMPIREX

Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

I couldn't agree more (though, for this topic, I'd be willing to try).

Icky stuff concerning River is the main reason I don't read fanfic. And though I certainly find her beautiful, I don't think of her in terms of "sexy" or "hot". To me, the whole River persona, and her innocence, and a whole crew recognizing that innocence, and willing to protect it, is a huge part of why I love Firefly so much. All of a sudden reading how River is grappling with any of the crew -- apart from finding it all manner of distasteful to take advantage of a mentally traumatized seventeen year old girl -- really, IMNSHO, violates not just River, but the very fabric of Firefly itself.

Beautifully put, asarian. I kinda skirted around the whole ethical issue but yeah, I think maybe you hit the nail on the head.

Is it ethical to write fic pairing a child-like character with a grown up? I don't know. There's nothing romantic about someone taking sexual advantage of a weaker party (even if the weaker party *appears* to be willing). The same thing for rapefic. A rape or attempted rape should not be used as a catalyst for romance. I'm fairly certain that when a woman has been raped, having any kind of sex would be the last thing on her mind, even if it is with a certain handsome captain/doctor/mercenary. I just think people should be a little more careful about what they write and how they write.

That being said, one fic comes to mind where a River/Jayne fic was actually well done. It was also a post-BDM fic: Kaynara's Bedlam/Bed and Wine Series (which was primarily a Mal/Inara fic).

The key was that Kaynara created a version of River we never got to see, but one that I'm sure River would have become had the series continued for a few years: a lucid, clear-thinking ADULT River, capable of carrying on an adult relationship, not a pixie-ish child that pretty much just giggles and dances around being meddlesome. She also softened up Jayne a bit, made him not so thug-ish and a little more feeling. Being loved by River changes him and he's a better man for it by the end of the story. I've yet to read another Rayne fic on par with that series, but I urge anyone who writes Riverfic to check it out. That's how the pros do it, girls and boys (waves to Kaynara: "I love you! I'm your biggest fan!"). Final thought: Mal and Jayne are not pedophiles. Please don't write them like that. It's not sexy, it's icky and it does a dis-service to the awesome characters that Joss wrote.

Good thread. Does anyone else have an opposing opinion? I'd like to hear what others think on both sides of the issue.

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:48 AM

It's interesting because this topic was started not long ago: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=26514
Not the exact same thing, but talk of River in relationships seems popular lately.
One series I have read that gave me a bit of a soft spot for Mal/River is Serenity Now by IrishCowgirl. It's gotten a bit more angsty lately, and there was a certain chapter where River seemed to be regressing a bit, but that's been taken down. The story is set in such a way that Mal tried to give it a go with Inara but it didn't work out and she left, and River is in her twenties by the time anything happens, so it seemed realistic to me. Also the later chapters explores how badly River could screw things up with her abilities, which was interesting.
Definitely needs to be handled with care is all I can say.

[]

MAL4PREZ

Monday, January 22, 2007 7:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
really, IMNSHO, violates not just River, but the very fabric of Firefly itself.

That's just... perfect. Thank you for saying that. Amen!!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Monday, January 22, 2007 10:28 PM

I agree with most of what Asarian said, and I honestly can't see River grappling with *any* of the crew.

That being said - I'd really like to see River in a relationship. As in River chasing someone she likes. Mostly because I imagine the crew would react very much the same way we react - some horrified, some concerned, some indifferent and one or two cheering her on. I think it could be a really interesting way of exploring just how independent River can be, and just how stable she really is.

I'm hoping to tackle something like this in fic myself... eventually. I'll try a straightforward story or two before I get into something that difficult!

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

DANNIISUPERNOVA

Monday, January 22, 2007 10:47 PM

Good point Desktop Hippie. In fact it was quite enlightening.

_____

"You know that's gonna fall off."
-----Nathan Fillion (to me while drunk)

How are ships unlike food?
1. If you try it and don't like it, you don't have to do it again.
2. You can have as much as you want, when you want.
3. Cravings can be very specific.
I mean, hello it's not as if there's 'ship police?

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Monday, January 22, 2007 10:55 PM

Aw, shucks! Thanks!

It's actually more or less because I've had to deal with mental illness myself. Nothing nearly as serious as what River went through (thankfully) but it does give me a certain amount of empathy with her position. She's going to get older, and she's going to get interested in the opposite sex (or maybe the same sex, if some fics are to be believed) and I'd actually really like to see just how Simon and the others would deal with that. Are they ever going to see River as anything more than a tortured child? Is she adult and healthy enough to make those decisions on her own?

Not to mention I'm kinda curious to see what kind of guy she'd go for.

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

ROMANCEGURU

Monday, January 22, 2007 11:52 PM

I think it has a lot to do on how we perceive River. As stated in the threads above, some see her as “weak” and therefore unable to make the choice to enter into an adult relationship with a man, especially a much older one. I do not see her as such. It saddens me that just because River is at times disturbed (and we know this less so after the BDM) that she cannot be allowed the same desires as any other girl/woman.

All River wants to be is “normal” and I think by denying her romance, your treating her character in a manner in which she would loathe. We see her wanting to be apart of the family and wanting to form intimate friendships with the crew; love is just the next advancement in her character growth. It is unrealistic to think she should remain stagnate.

I agree that River should not be portrayed in a one-sided manner, child-like/crazy ect (with the exception of a purely comedic piece) because there are many facets of her character. Even in the series, I always got the sense of her pre-academy nature shining through, a deep maturity in the way she carries herself. Balancing the woman she is becoming with the child-like innocence she encompasses is key to any good River-centric fanfiction.

Quote:
“River's still a bit crazy, but not with that same child-like innocence. She looks, speaks, and dresses like a woman, albeit a whimsical one.”

This is a good point, and helps support the supposition that River is maturing. I think in Serenity she does contain a certain ‘sex appeal’ that she did not in the series. Having to deal with the fact that she is a killer also would help balance the fragile River that some portray her as, and to extent along with her genius, age her beyond her years.

All these dynamics help support my comfortableness in pairing River romantically with any main character of her choice regardless of age. Reasonably, the initial inner struggle would be more on the man’s part in observing the apparent age difference. If you can get the characters to connect on a deeper level, age then becomes a trivial matter.

I’m slightly curious as to the fic you read, unless it was one of mine. ;-p

“Hell is coming to breakfast.”

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