No sir, I didn't care for it. S6 ending - Spike/Buffy

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, January 19, 2007 13:08
VIEWED: 3607
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AURAPTOR

Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:39 PM

Spoilers ahead!

Granted, I JUST am now starting S7 of Buffy, so yes, I'm 4+ yrs behind the curve on this stuff...but it's still all new to me, so there

I'm torn as to just why I didn't care for it. Knowing Joss, it's seldom hearts and flowers for any couple, but what was up w/ the Spike/ Buffy "almost" rape scene? Was that the only way we could get Spike to leave Sunnydale and get things 'fixed' ?? I must say, I was surprised at the wish Spike was after, but to the point.... I'm confused as to how a souless vamp, chip or no chip, can regret what he did. And why's he regret polishing the table w/ Anya ? They were both hurt, they got pissed on liquor, and things happened. What's the big deal ? ( from a Vamps perspective, I mean )

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

MIRAMEL

Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:58 PM

hey, i am RIGHT were you are in terms of what i've seen, im just now starting s7 and finished 6 a bit ago. i didn't like the ending much either, but it was less spike related and more tara related- SOSOSO sad. i just hate that. but on spike, yeah, i think its kinda weird whats going on there. frankly, i like earlier spike a lot better, when he was just straight-up evil, no tricks. [a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. honestly. its the honest once you want to look out for, you can never tell when they're going to do something terribly... stupid]. it does seem kinda ooc, but frankly i think by this point spike is so screwed up, it barely even registers.

~~~~
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
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Fear is the Mind Killer
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DEEPGIRL187

Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:25 AM

Hoo boy...this is going to open up a whole barrel of worms.

Season six is popularly known as a "love it or hate it" season. For me, I enjoyed individual episodes, but overall, the season wasn't one of my favorites. I felt it was somewhat uneven.

There's a multitude of ideas about Spike in this season, especially regarding his soul. I won't go into the different theories, but here's my personal opinion.

Spike, I think, was never your average vampire. If you look at all of his history that is included in the series (some of which takes place in season seven, other parts in season five of Angel), to me it shows that he was never just a souless monster. I think he has a capacity to express emotion that transcends what most vampires are thought to possess. All that being said, the love he felt for Buffy (no matter how unhealthy it was), is what allowed him to feel remorse for what he almost did to her (as well as the incident with Anya), and is what thus led him to acquire a soul.

This is, however, my opinion. If you explore this and other forums on the subject, you'll find a great deal of varying opinions. In any case, I hope that gives you a starting point in dissecting the season.

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"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life."

CHRISISALL

Sunday, January 14, 2007 1:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
the love he felt for Buffy (no matter how unhealthy it was), is what allowed him to feel remorse for what he almost did to her (as well as the incident with Anya), and is what thus led him to acquire a soul.

Right there with ya, Deepgirl. Except that I liked most of the season, no matter how painful.

Souled Chrisisall

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:10 PM

deepgirl, you naied it about S6 and it being so uneven. I mean, how does the same season contain a musical to one of the darkest episodes with the death of Tara and then the emergance of Dark Willow. And oh yeah, the whole Buffy trying to figure her now alive self out again.....It seems like this season goes in 100 different directions at the same time.

Also, you seemed to be correct in how Spike's love for Buffy 'allowed ' him to feel sorry for what he'd done, but again, isn't that only a problem if you have a soul in the 1st place ? That Spike wresltes with what he's done internally, and that's what leads him to GETTINTG a soul, seems to be putting the cart before the horse.

I just have to say, up until Spikes scene w/ Buffy in the bathroom , and most of what I've seen after, I've really enjoyed Spike as a character. I know many think he'd become too camp, too much the comic side kick, but I think since his hands were tied ( figuratively speaking ) his evil doing ways were limited. What else was he to do? He couldn't very much leave Sunnydale and go out in the real world. Not in that 'defanged' state. I think it made sense that he'd call a truce, of sorts, w/ the Scoobies and end up falling in love w/ Buffy, as he was already hot for her before he had his chip implanted.

And also with the whole near rape scene, I think it could have made a bit more sense if the writers showed more of the confusion Spike was going through. What ever the reason, time constraints on writing, etc....I think the way it happened made it seem like it was from left field, almost like an after thought.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SUCCATASH

Sunday, January 14, 2007 3:13 PM

Well, Spike was pretty torn up when Druscilla left him (what was that, season 2?)

Didn't that bit of soulishness bother you? :)

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Well, Spike was pretty torn up when Druscilla left him (what was that, season 2?)

Didn't that bit of soulishness bother you? :)

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

I'm not saying one needs to have a soul in order to still have wants. Drusilla leaving him deprived Spike of his sexy, evil playmate. But it's not the same as if he were try to rape her and then become all pensive and introspective , as he did w/ Buffy.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SUCCATASH

Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:23 PM

Spike certainly treated Harmony as a sex toy, but he felt true soulish affection for Druscilla (and Buffy).

In season two, "Suprise," the Judge tells Spike and Druscilla: You two stink of humanity. You share affection and jealousy.

It appears Spike has a touch of humanity in him?

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Spike certainly treated Harmony as a sex toy, but he felt true soulish affection for Druscilla (and Buffy).

In season two, "Suprise," the Judge tells Spike and Druscilla: You two stink of humanity. You share affection and jealousy.

It appears Spike has a touch of humanity in him?

Spike and Dru, Angel and Darla...seems there's all manner of lust and want w/ these vampire types. Why else would Spike get ticked off that Angel was boinking Drusilla ? It seems all perplexing.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:28 PM

I'm kinda catching up on this thread, so forgive me if this has been said before.

Yes, it was a particularly dark and nasty scene from a particularly dakr and nasty season that blurred the lines on a loooot of issues. The only person who came out blameless that year were Tara and Dawn - and Tara died. That kinda sums the season up!

I can't even begin to describe the heated arguments that burned up the 'net in the wake of this season. It split fans right down the middle. In my mind, both the "big" events (Tara's death and the attempted rape of Buffy) were needed to continue stories that had been put in place long before. I think certain aspects of each could have been handled better, but they were still integral to the overall plot of the show and to the development of Willow and Spike.

I think the Buffy/Spike almost rape scene was to remind viewers that Spike had a chip and not a soul. Spike was slowly becoming more and more human-like in his actions and his feelings as the years progressed, but at his very core he just didn't have the moral centre people normally have. He just didn't have the ability to tell right from wrong. He only knew he'd made a terrible mistake from Buffy's reaction to what happened.

The truth is, most of us got a bit too cosy about Spike. We saw him as a good guy. Heck, he was even taking on the role of Dawn's nanny! The attempted rape underscored just how much he needed a soul if he was ever truly going to achieve redemption. Without it, he was just an animal on a leash. Hence the scene where he thinks his chip has failed and gets a girl nice and terrified before he tries to bite her.

I remember one Buffy fan at the time comparing Spike to The Joker in DC comics. Everyone *loves* the Joker, and for that reason you tend to forget that he's evil. So when he does something truly brutal (like beating Robin to death) it's even more shocking.

It sounds silly, but you'd be amazed how many Buffy fans still think that Spike was always good and that the only reason he did something nasty is because Buffy was a rotten girlfriend. Nope, I'm not kidding. I've seen Spike-fans blame Buffy for everything. They even blamed her for him wanting to bite that girl in the ally, since Buffy "stood him up." I think that's part of the reason why that particular scene had to happen.

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