Simon's Dad

POSTED BY: JLin
UPDATED: Sunday, October 14, 2007 22:59
VIEWED: 7956
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JLIN

Saturday, December 23, 2006 4:01 PM

I've always been confused as to why Simon's dad wasn't more concerned about River. Simon gave pretty good evidence to him that something was not right at the academy and he totally ignored him. Do you think that he knew what was going on with River, maybe from the time she entered the Academy? I wonder if the Alliance threatened him to keep him away and since it seems that status if more important to him than family, he was easily kept quiet.

Thank Universal for airing Firefly in HD at
http://universalhd.com/Firefly/

BAGHEERA

Saturday, December 23, 2006 5:24 PM

Simon's Dad is a citizen of the Alliance, and every good citizen knows that the Alliance is making the worlds a better place, and have only our best interests at heart, and would NEVER do anything to harm us.

And even IF he saw incontrovertible proof that the Alliance was harming his daughter, I think he'd be more worried about "what the smith's would think if they knew River had done something to deserve that kind of punishment" and less on doubting the sanctity of the Alliance.

Hmm... i'm kinda reminded of the middle ages and excommunication, or Rome and the threat of exile from civilized lands... the threats of those sorts of punishment were usually enough to cow most objectors into submission, and qualm the worries of most before they even became objections.

SIGMANUNKI

Saturday, December 23, 2006 5:40 PM

Um, what "pretty good evidence"?

All we have seen Simon show his parents is the letters. Which, as his mother pointed out, was probably one of Rivers games. Just because you know the truth, doesn't mean that it is at all obvious to someone in that situation at that time i.e. Hindsight is 20/20.

I imagine that they could have wrote off, at first, the long period of hearing nothing from River as she's just become so engrossed in her studies, that she's forgetting to write. After that, when the /probably/ tried to contact her unsuccessfully, they /probably/ got the idea that they weren't going to see her again. That the Alliance had taken her for whatever reason.

Then it /probably/ became a, I hope that they don't come after us type thing. So, let's just play the role of the good Alliance citizen and not stir the s**t.

But, one must also point out all the times in which I *had* to say "probably." We basically know nothing about this. We don't know the mother and father characters *at all*. So, we wouldn't know there motivations. One of them /might/ have been being threatened.

But, if you're interested, this has been discussed at length on several occasions. Search the archives:

http://fireflylabs.ca/misc/fffsearch.html

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

REGINAROADIE

Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:47 PM

Ah yes, the eternal debate about Gabriel and Regan Tam. To me, this is the juciest unresolved sub-plot of the series and movie. I could care less about what the Alliance's perogatives were towards River. I'm more interested in the elder Tams.

There are many different camps of belief when it comes to Simon and River's parents. I know the ususal belief around here is that they knew what they were doing to River and that they didn't want to disturb their cushy lifestyle, therefore EVIL!!! But personally, I never bought that. I'm more in the camp of "They have no idea what happpened, and if they did, at least one of them would do something." I mean, c'mon. THey're their parents. They created and raised the two of them for so many years and know them far better than the crew. You're telling me they're suddenly just going to go "Ah, fuck em." I don't think so.

In the three scenes Gabriel was in, the first scene has him being very warm and affectionate towards the two. He clearly want the best for them. And in my story YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN (which is really my 170 plus page answer to your question), I turn this characteristic into the fatal flaw that turns him into, and deservedly so, a tragic character.

I get so sick and tired of reading him as an evil character, since it's a bit of a cliche. One of the things that I actually DON'T like about Joss is how in all his works, he so obviously hates biological fathers. Every character's dad, with the exception of Fred's dad in ANGEL, are either absent of a let-down or a complete shit. And I think with Gabriel, there's a chance to tell a really great tragic story, which in my story, he's still a shit, but you realize that he's being a shit to cover up the slow suicide of his guilt-fuelled alcoholism.

So to answer your question, I think there's a lot more going on than what we say, and not necessarily for the worse. That's the short answer. The long answer is my story YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN, which should have a new chapter up soon.

**************************************************
"Wait a minute, you're not Santa! You're not even robots!! How dare you lie in front of Jesus!!!"

JLIN

Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:41 PM

This is what I was thinking, even a little bit of evidence (the code Simon refers to River using) would be enough for any father to check into the safety of their child. I remember Simon stating that the code said something about "They are hurting us". Perhaps after a call to the academy the dad knew something wasn't right but focused his efforts on protecting Simon after that??

Thank you all for the discussion!!!

Thank Universal for airing Firefly in HD at
http://universalhd.com/Firefly/

NBZ

Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:31 PM

In an earlier draft of Safe, it was hinted at that his dad knew, but felt powerless to act.

He more or less asked Simon what he expected him to do.

But it was replaced in the end with the current scenes.

ASARIAN

Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:44 AM

I don't think Gabriel and Regan Tam are evil; nor even if they knew about what was happening to River, or suspected it, but didn't wanna disturb their cushy lifestyle. Rather, as it is often the case in real life, I think when people are confronted with a difficult situation like this, they choose denial first. After all, admitting something is a-foul, to yourself, puts a responsibility on you to do something about it. And that reality can be hard to swallow. Especially when the one you're supposed to act against is the Alliance. Denial then easily becomes the first and most convenient choice.

Also, I think the newly found datapad, with River's birth date on it, seems to suggest there's no reason to assume the Tam folks knew, upfront, what would happen to River at the Academy. It reads:

"In 2515, her family sent her to the Osiris school for the gifed, where she was recruited for project Oracle."

Protective parents? Yeah, but I’m looking at some fair compelling evidence says they aren't. :) What we see of Gabriel Tam, in the Safe flashback to their youth, is primarily a parent with a vested interest in seeing Simon's career go well and do the family proud:

Gabriel: "You will repay me by becoming a brilliant doctor. That's the deal. Dedicated source box, brilliant doctor." And he's quite dismissive towards River:

Young River: When do I...?
Gabriel: Many years.

Not saying Gabriel has no love for his children; because I believe he does. But social status is of great importance to him. And when Simon is caught in a blackout zone, the fabric of the Tam family appears a mite thinner than even Simon expected:

Gabriel: Are you trying to destroy this family?
Simon: I didn't realize it would be so easy.
...
Simon: Meaning what?
Gabriel: I won't come for you again. You end up here, or get mixed-up in something worse, you're on your own.

Wouldn't know about suddenly, but that sounds awfully close to "Ah, fuck em!" to me. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:37 AM

I always kinda figured it was just 'cause they were so loyal to the Alliance. He couldn't believe that they would lie to their citizens, or that they would cause them harm, especially since the Tams were probably a very well-to-do family with a lot of influence in their society. I suppose he would deny that River was in danger, even if it was obvious, and he would've put his social position above the welfare of his family.

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.

ASARIAN

Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Then it /probably/ became a, I hope that they don't come after us type thing. So, let's just play the role of the good Alliance citizen and not stir the s**t.

But, one must also point out all the times in which I *had* to say "probably." We basically know nothing about this. We don't know the mother and father characters *at all*. So, we wouldn't know there motivations. One of them /might/ have been being threatened.

I just found an even earlier shooting script, and it's quite revealing:

--------------------
SIMON
Dad! Forget my record! River is in
trouble!
GABRIEL
River isn't here!

Simon looks like he's been slapped across the face. Stunned.

GABRIEL (cont'd)
We are. And we have to be very
careful what we do. This is a
government school, Simon. People in
our position... it's important that
we show support for this government.
SIMON
You're talking about politics? This
is about your daughter!

GABRIEL
This is about our lives.

Simon stares at them both for a beat, taking this in. He leaves the room, exits to --

EXT. TAM ESTATE / ENTRYWAY - NIGHT

Simon steps out into the rain. Gabriel follows.

GABRIEL
Where are you going?
SIMON
To get her out.

GABRIEL
This isn't something you want to do.

SIMON
You're right. This isn't something
I want to do. But if I don't, then
no one will. So I'll do it. I'll
take care of her. Just like I always
have.

Simon moves out into the RAIN. Gabriel takes a step after him --

GABRIEL
That's < bullcrap >. We gave both of
our children everything they could
possibly want.
Simon turns back, rain beating down on him.

SIMON
But you never gave us anything we
needed.
GABRIEL
How can you say that? Look around
you! Look at this life!

SIMON
You had rooms to fill. That's all.
You used us like furniture.
--------------------

P.S. Remember the BDM? River: "You take care of me, Simon. You've always taken care of me." In this shooting script we suddenly learn it was actually a reference to this earlier draft of Safe, where Simon says: "I'll take care of her. Just like I always have."

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

I just found an even earlier shooting script, and it's quite revealing:

And b/c you post it here it must be true, right?

Also, by the mere fact that this is a EARLIER shooting script (of questionable authenticity for that matter, but let's assume that it is authentic for the /moment/), means that this is NOT what Joss decided to say in the end. For that matter, how do you even know that this is what Joss wanted to go on /after the change/?

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

P.S. Remember the BDM? River: "You take care of me, Simon. You've always taken care of me." In this shooting script we suddenly learn it was actually a reference to this earlier draft of Safe, where Simon says: "I'll take care of her. Just like I always have."

Or we can reference something from Simon's dad, /that actually made it into the series/. To paraphrase:

"I always thought that it was River that is lost without her brother. Perhaps its the other way around."

Which "suddenly" means that this is just a reference to a kind older brother that cared enough about his little sister to take care of her. Enough that the parents thought that River would be lost without her brother.

As a comment to you, you're really going to have to stop making references that did NOT make into FF canon. Reference the series (in context please) for things to defend what you believe to be true, but stop this sophistry of bringing in things that didn't actually make into the series/movie.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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