Simon's Dad

POSTED BY: JLin
UPDATED: Sunday, October 14, 2007 22:59
VIEWED: 7956
PAGE 2 of 3

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 NEXT PAGE

ASARIAN

Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

I just found an even earlier shooting script, and it's quite revealing:

And b/c you post it here it must be true, right?

Also, by the mere fact that this is a EARLIER shooting script (of questionable authenticity for that matter, but let's assume that it is authentic for the /moment/), means that this is NOT what Joss decided to say in the end. For that matter, how do you even know that this is what Joss wanted to go on /after the change/?

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

P.S. Remember the BDM? River: "You take care of me, Simon. You've always taken care of me." In this shooting script we suddenly learn it was actually a reference to this earlier draft of Safe, where Simon says: "I'll take care of her. Just like I always have."

Or we can reference something from Simon's dad, /that actually made it into the series/. To paraphrase:

"I always thought that it was River that is lost without her brother. Perhaps its the other way around."

Which "suddenly" means that this is just a reference to a kind older brother that cared enough about his little sister to take care of her. Enough that the parents thought that River would be lost without her brother.

As a comment to you, you're really going to have to stop making references that did NOT make into FF canon. Reference the series (in context please) for things to defend what you believe to be true, but stop this sophistry of bringing in things that didn't actually make into the series/movie.

Firefly is a great series. People, myself included, inevitably will want to explore every facet of it, including the occasional scrutiny of shooting scripts. If you mistake a shooting script for canon, or think others do, well, that's squarely your problem, really. I, for one, assume people know what a shooting script is, and can themselves place it in its relative context. Or, should they perchance be unclear about what it really is, that they'll have a civil enough tongue to ask.

Shooting scripts often offer a unique insight to things that, eventually, for one reason or another, never made it into the series. The content of River's letters from Safe, for instance, where she talks about having gone to a lake last summer, can be related, linea recta, to an earlier shooting script. People like me find such finds fascinating. I consider it a form of archeology: you dig up pieces of a puzzle, that may give you some clues as to things that otherwise (as they are no longer referenced in canon) may have stayed unclear.

As to the shooting script in question, it's interesting in that we, indeed, suddenly realize that a well know line in the BDM appears to be an echo from something that, eventually, never made it to canon in the episode. It also provides a deeper insight into how fragile the relationship between the Tam siblings and their parents really was. We learnt a bit of that in the canon version of Safe, where Simon says, "I didn't think it would be that easy." (in reference to how easy it was to break up the family). This shooting script adds to that, and shows more clearly where the Gabriel's priorities lie. Or, rather, since this is a shooting script, it provides some additional clues as to what sort of characters Joss originally had in mind for them.

A shooting script, especially when compared to canon, is a treasure all unto itself. Because it allows you, the viewer, a peek into the history making process of the series. For instance, the whole story of the Tams having been at the lake last year, and then seeing that, in the end, that whole story line is dropped, and been replaced with Simon asking his parents whether they had a good time at the D'arbanville's ball this year, that's cute. Because maybe Joss thought that the lake story was not fancy enough for the Tams, and that a ball would be more up to the standards of their outings. Who knows.

Reading shooting scripts also make, me at least, feel more c

ORANGEHAT

Monday, January 22, 2007 3:18 AM

Power to ya!
I totally agree. I find things like that amazingly interesting. Just because it never made it into the series doesn't mean it was completely forgotten, or that it won't come up later or influence the turns the series takes!
I found whatever was said against you(asarian) bringing up these little tidbits insulting and horribly rude! If you (SigmaNunki) don't want to discuss all aspects of firefly then you don't have to read the forums. Who died and made you king of the 'verse? Everyone has the right to post what they think may apply to the conversation at hand.

***I like the idea of the Tam parents being too afraid to stand up to their government, it has a very historical ring to it.

That nerdy hat

DOCTROID

Monday, January 22, 2007 3:47 AM

A bit of devil's advocacy here: How do we know River's parents were NOT trying to get their daughter out?

I think the scenes as shot can be interpreted as depicting a father who's very conscious of his and his family's status in the community, and who is at least partly driven by a desire to maintain that status. I believe that could explain his failure to accept the evidence of River's letters. Ever met someone who's come from childhood poverty or at least disadvantage and achieved financial and social success? Sometimes terror of losing that can blind and/or paralyze them.

But I think it's at least interesting to consider the possibility (Occam's razor be damned) that River's parents were aware of what's happening and were actively trying to rescue her. Gabriel's first scene depicts him as an intelligent, loving, dynamic man; maybe he's not as blind or uncaring as one might think he is in the later scenes. Out of genuine concern for his son's safety and career he doesn't let Simon in on what he's doing, he denies the evidence of the letters and forbids Simon to act. Perhaps also out of concern that Simon's actions might call attention to his own! That Simon was the one who succeeded doesn't prove his parents didn't try.

What, I wonder, happened to Gabriel and Regan after River's escape? Did they come under Alliance suspicion? Were they interrogated, imprisoned? Did they disappear too?

CAVALIER

Monday, January 22, 2007 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Then it /probably/ became a, I hope that they don't come after us type thing. So, let's just play the role of the good Alliance citizen and not stir the s**t.

But, one must also point out all the times in which I *had* to say "probably." We basically know nothing about this. We don't know the mother and father characters *at all*. So, we wouldn't know there motivations. One of them /might/ have been being threatened.

I just found an even earlier shooting script, and it's quite revealing:

--------------------
SIMON
Dad! Forget my record! River is in
trouble!
GABRIEL
River isn't here!

Simon looks like he's been slapped across the face. Stunned.

GABRIEL (cont'd)
We are. And we have to be very
careful what we do. This is a
government school, Simon. People in
our position... it's important that
we show support for this government.
SIMON
You're talking about politics? This
is about your daughter!

GABRIEL
This is about our lives.

"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

Well, my impression of that exchange is that SigmaNunki was right: Regan was trying to save his remaining son.

You will notice that Simon has never said anything about journalists, telling his story to the press etc. The Alliance does not seem to be the kind of country where you appear on a talk show, telling the world how silenced you are.

In the Alliance, you shut up, or you are shut up.

The Alliance was demonstrably prepared to kidnap the child of an apparently important family, and apparently expected no effective response.

It managed to keep secret the fact that it had wiped out one of its own colonies by accident.

If it can do that, the disappearance of the Tam family could not have been difficult, if they were given a motive to disappear them.

LEIASKY

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:10 PM

Asarian, very eloquently said. I agree completely.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

LEIASKY

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:16 PM

I didn't read something mentioning this possibility, but its possible I overlooked it.

We don't know how close together the scene with the letter and the scene in the holding area are. Simon said it took him years to get to River. During that time, (from when Simon produced the letters to when he wwas arrested) Gabriel and Regan could have made inquieries and been satisfied by the response they received, where Simon was not.

I wish we'd been given more insight into the Tam family and maybe, someday, we will. Until then, everything really is speculation.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:23 PM

I think it's no accident that the first thing we see when we meet the Tams in 'Safe' is the barrier around their house. The world Simon's parents live in is much smaller than Simon's and River's.

Simon's parents are concerned with what goes on within their circles - what people will think of them, the status their children can earn, what a good family they are. Everything outside their narrow world is fenced off - unknown, dangerous and nothing they want to get involved with. It's clear that Simon had a bit of a fight to get what seems to be the 'verse version of the internet installed in the house. And even though he was just a kid, his father was already telling him that he had to become 'a brilliant surgeon' to earn it. Everything about those first scenes shows what a closed off, regulated world the Tams lived in.

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

FOLLOWMAL

Wednesday, January 24, 2007 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
I think it's no accident that the first thing we see when we meet the Tams in 'Safe' is the barrier around their house. The world Simon's parents live in is much smaller than Simon's and River's.

Simon's parents are concerned with what goes on within their circles - what people will think of them, the status their children can earn, what a good family they are. Everything outside their narrow world is fenced off - unknown, dangerous and nothing they want to get involved with. It's clear that Simon had a bit of a fight to get what seems to be the 'verse version of the internet installed in the house. And even though he was just a kid, his father was already telling him that he had to become 'a brilliant surgeon' to earn it. Everything about those first scenes shows what a closed off, regulated world the Tams lived in.

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

I agree with you DTH. Nothing that the writers and directors and Joss did with the scenes in Firefly or Serenity were done without layers of meaning in them.

Asarian...keep digging.. it's fun and insightful and lends itself to engaging conversations about the 'verse. It's nice frankly to see discussions about the show we all love here. So much of the 'Verse is caught up with other things now. Thank you everyone for an interesting thread.

I had the pleasure of reading a speech given at a writer's seminar by Tim Minear... I'm paraphrasing here, as I don't have the entire speech at hand, but I remember there was discussion in it and amongst the students there that there were many instances where what was written for a script was suddenly changed by input from some other writer, or a new idea that would pop into someone's head... then the former thing written might be used later, maybe whole, sometimes altered.

We have evidence for that right here on the site, as the script for the last ep that was never filmed was filched from for The Message and another ep.

Not canon perhaps... but fun and instant fodder for conversation... and that's what we're all here for.. conversation about the show we love.

And hopefully it's pleasant conversation.

Go to www.whitenoisethelight.net for more info!

WANWEITRIP

Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:46 AM

I think the parents were written as an example of "All that is required for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing."

They are not inherently evil but by not acting (for whatever reason - fear or uncertainty) they have allowed bad to happen. They have stood by (as many of us do) and said "It is not up to me. Things will be worse if I rock the boat."

In that sense it is better that they were left a little ambiguous and unclear, that we don't know all about them.

We are made to feel about them, as they feel about River's situation - uncertain.

Genius!

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots... SHUT UP!!!

FOLLOWMAL

Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WanWeiTrip:

Genius!

Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots... SHUT UP!!!

Ahhh, that's our Joss. Genius indeed!

Oh, and Tim and all the others!!

Go to www.whitenoisethelight.net for more info!

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 NEXT PAGE