Dick Cheney's lesbo daughter becomes Mr Mom
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 19:46
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I choose to believe that homosexuality is a choice because I choose to believe that anything that we do is our choice. Those of you who have agreed or argued with me on other threads before should have picked up on the pattern that I've never waivered from that stance once on any thread in here. This has nothing to do with my viewpoint on Homosexuality, and I would think that those who know me would know by now that I am 100% behind anybody who chooses that lifestyle.
I do not buy into anybody being a slave to ones genetics. Genetics is simply a cop out, a means for somebody who, for whatever reason, feels ashamed of the choices they're making by blaming them on their chromosomes. This train of thought will only lead us to a world where we are all taking pills to deal with our problems and I'm 100% against mood/behavioral altering pills.
Back when we owned black slaves in America, a majority white people truly believed they were superior over black people. You all know this, as I'm assuming you all went to school. Nobody in here comes off as stupid or uneducated to me. Obviously, this belief that blacks were inferior was nonsense, but many black slaves who had been treated that way all of their lives and grew up watching thier parents treated that way bought into that train of thought as well. Some, who were treated decently, even went as far as to love their "Masters". This was years of mental and physical conditioning (one would imagine even sexual conditioning in some cases) and external stimuli, having nothing at all to do with genetics. Aside from the color of their skin dictating, in the public eye at the time, that they would be one of the slave class, there was no genetic code which made them inferior any way. This slavery was not a direct effect of thier genetics, but an indirect effect steming from their outside stimuli.
Take some responsibility for your choices and actions. Be loud and proud about them. Don't walk through life believing that choices you make are just things you do because you can't help yourself. That is pathetic. I have no distain for someone who is gay. I do however hold contempt for anyone who believes that they are what they are, no matter what that is, due to circumstances out of their control.
And since we are being so honest here... I'll just say that I would imagine that many of you would be afraid to delve into the darkness of my sexual realm. There is no way any of you could even come close to guessing my sexual tendancies. Homosexuality is pure vanilla compared to the kinks I have running around in my head. I would be 100% hypocritical if I were to sit back and lay any judgement on the choices that a homosexual has made. I don't think I've ever once painted myself out to be any kind of saint who can lay judgement on others. After reading my last post, did anybody bother to ask themselves why I would even know of a woman who lives 2,000 miles from me who takes men for walks on all fours with barely any clothes and a leash? I've been places and seen things that many of you have never even dreamed about before. I've been D, I've been s. Though everything has always been legal, consentual & between adults, I'd be lying if I said I was proud of it all, but that's part of the attraction and the fun. However, I refuse to blame this on genetics. This is my choice, and the deeper I get involved, the further away I am from the person I use to be. The person who a normal, vanilla relationship was good enough for. Which, again, is purely conditioning which I chose, and continue to choose to endure.
So FMF.... tell me about your gay son or friend again.
To say any of this is genetic, would be ammo for any politician with an agenda to try to stamp "controvercial" sexual behavior out completely, and if it is genetics, they could probably do that with drugs. I gather nobody in here believes that homosexuality is a disease, with the exception of one who's name needs no mentioning. Is it really so hard to imagine a real life scenario where after having
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I don't think people are saying gender sex preferences are 100% genetic any more than they are 100% - well - here's the confusion.
If something is genetic (nature) it's not a choice. It's also possible for something to be developmental (nurture) without it being a choice. And you can have effects that are both nature and nurture without either being a choice. So there is room for influence which is not a choice.
But you never quite answered the question - what do you think of homosexuality in animals? It's clearly not a decision on their part.
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Sorry, I didn't answer your question Rue, and that is a good point.
Now, let me state that though I've never bought into a particular religion of any type, I do believe that there is more to man than basic animal instinct. Call it free will, call it whatever you will. Did this come from "God" or some other omnipotient being(s)? I do not know and this is not the place to discuss such matters. Suffice it to say I do believe in our ability to think and do for ourselves and I prize that decision making ability above any possessions that I own.
My point here, is that we have free will to make choices. Animals, however, are driven by instinct. I've said in a previous post that I believe the line between homosexuality and hetrosexuality is MUCH thinner than anyone on either side of the debate cares to admit, and I mean just that. I also believe that this very thin line extends within the animal species as well.
One very common instance of animal homosexuality is when the dominant Alpha male gets the pick of the best females, the lesser males are left with a much smaller pool of females, if any at all, to choose from and often revert to homosexuality out of little or no other way to satisfy that deep seeded instinctual urge. I believe that this is very well the case in some of the instances of human homosexuality.
Again, let me state that I'm not judging here at all, but I am simply stating one possible scenario of outside influence promoting homosexuality. Of course this isn't the most optomistic or healty example, and I'm not trying to say here that all instances of homosexuality is derived from deviousness, but I am simply speaking to the question that you asked me.
Why do you think a woman has a higher chance of "experementing" when she goes away to college? I would say it is because we are all naturally and genetically prone to this behavior, but for whatever reason, it is more socially acceptable at this point in time for women to behave that way then for men to. This "exparimentation" doesn't necesessarily even mean that they're gay or that they will choose to be in the future. Maybe they tried it out and they didn't like it. Maybe they tried it out and they will never sleep with a man again. Maybe, they'll choose not to choose and just to have sex with men and women the rest of their lives.
Again, it is their choice.
I have a question for you, Rue. Why do you think that women are much more prone to being bi-sexual, rather than 100% gay, while men are usually one or the other?
I feel that lies directly with the social climate of today and outside stimuli. Girls are almost taught by celebrities today that it's fun and it's sexy and naughty to do it. When do you ever see that on TV with males, directed at males?
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I choose to believe that homosexuality is a choice because I choose to believe that anything that we do is our choice. Those of you who have agreed or argued with me on other threads before should have picked up on the pattern that I've never waivered from that stance once on any thread in here. This has nothing to do with my viewpoint on Homosexuality, and I would think that those who know me would know by now that I am 100% behind anybody who chooses that lifestyle.
I do not buy into anybody being a slave to ones genetics. Genetics is simply a cop out, a means for somebody who, for whatever reason, feels ashamed of the choices they're making by blaming them on their chromosomes. This train of thought will only lead us to a world where we are all taking pills to deal with our problems and I'm 100% against mood/behavioral altering pills.
Back when we owned black slaves in America, a majority white people truly believed they were superior over black people. You all know this, as I'm assuming you all went to school. Nobody in here comes off as stupid or uneducated to me. Obviously, this belief that blacks were inferior was nonsense, but many black slaves who had been treated that way all of their lives and grew up watching thier parents treated that way bought into that train of thought as well. Some, who were treated decently, even went as far as to love their "Masters". This was years of mental and physical conditioning (one would imagine even sexual conditioning in some cases) and external stimuli, having nothing at all to do with genetics. Aside from the color of their skin dictating, in the public eye at the time, that they would be one of the slave class, there was no genetic code which made them inferior any way. This slavery was not a direct effect of thier genetics, but an indirect effect steming from their outside stimuli.
Take some responsibility for your choices and actions. Be loud and proud about them. Don't walk through life believing that choices you make are just things you do because you can't help yourself. That is pathetic. I have no distain for someone who is gay. I do however hold contempt for anyone who believes that they are what they are, no matter what that is, due to circumstances out of their control.
And since we are being so honest here... I'll just say that I would imagine that many of you would be afraid to delve into the darkness of my sexual realm. There is no way any of you could even come close to guessing my sexual tendancies. Homosexuality is pure vanilla compared to the kinks I have running around in my head. I would be 100% hypocritical if I were to sit back and lay any judgement on the choices that a homosexual has made. I don't think I've ever once painted myself out to be any kind of saint who can lay judgement on others. After reading my last post, did anybody bother to ask themselves why I would even know of a woman who lives 2,000 miles from me who takes men for walks on all fours with barely any clothes and a leash? I've been places and seen things that many of you have never even dreamed about before. I've been D, I've been s. Though everything has always been legal, consentual & between adults, I'd be lying if I said I was proud of it all, but that's part of the attraction and the fun. However, I refuse to blame this on genetics. This is my choice, and the deeper I get involved, the further away I am from the person I use to be. The person who a normal, vanilla relationship was good enough for. Which, again, is purely conditioning which I chose, and continue to choose to endure.
So FMF.... tell me about your gay son or friend again.
To say any of this is genetic, would be ammo for any politician with an agenda to try to stamp "controvercial" sexual behavior out completely, and if it is genetics, they could probably do that with drugs. I gather nobody in here believes that homosexuality is a disease, with the exception of one who's name needs no mentioning. Is it really so hard toNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Monkeys behave like Monkeys, people behave like people, a great deal of behavoral aspects are down to genetics, there's ussually an enviromental factor, but the fact that people are drawn into societies and certain behavoral types the world over irregardless of enviroment is a provable indicator that there is a genetic component to behaviour. Not 'excusing' someones behaviour because of genetics is one thing, but saying genetics has no role to play is pure lunacy, it's like saying genetics has no role to play in eye or hair colour.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I do not buy into anybody being a slave to ones genetics. Genetics is simply a cop out, a means for somebody who, for whatever reason, feels ashamed of the choices they're making by blaming them on their chromosomes. This train of thought will only lead us to a world where we are all taking pills to deal with our problems and I'm 100% against mood/behavioral altering pills.
Quote:It was also the reason for Eugenics, are you denying that the differences between the races or those with genetic diseases or disabillities is genetics? That a baby chooses it's race prior to Birth? The fact that some fascist may jump on a genetic component in Homosexuallity is not a reason to deny it, it's a reason to jump on fascists. Denying something because of what a fascist might do if we recognise it is cowardice.
To say any of this is genetic, would be ammo for any politician with an agenda to try to stamp "controvercial" sexual behavior out completely, and if it is genetics, they could probably do that with drugs.
Genetics determines a great deal, you wanting to believe genetics determines nothing is your own failing. I really can not see the big problem with recognising that genetics and enviroment create our situation, it doesn't prevent us making choices, merely gives us choices to make. The need to believe that EVERYTHING in life is a choice seems more indicative to me of a god complex than anything else.
Quote:Homosexuallity is born out of desperation? I don't get much (well any really) interest of women, yet I've not "turned gay". How do you account for that? Saying homosexuallity is the last resort of the desperate seems to be much more of an attack than saying it is a genetic trait.
One very common instance of animal homosexuality is when the dominant Alpha male gets the pick of the best females, the lesser males are left with a much smaller pool of females, if any at all, to choose from and often revert to homosexuality out of little or no other way to satisfy that deep seeded instinctual urge. I believe that this is very well the case in some of the instances of human homosexuality.
People are different because of their genetics, that's a fact, to assume automatically that those differences are a disease because they are genetic would be to predispose that everyone is supposed to be a carbon copy of each other.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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For those of us that are gay/lesbian etc. who also have other close gay family members (in my case my late older brother, and two female cousins on my mother's side of the family), it's a little hard to completely dismiss a genetic link.
That's not about relying on an 'excuse' - it's about acknowledging a possibility.
As far as choices go, for me, the only choice involved was not to lie to my family and say that I was not a lesbian when it came to light. Everything else I deal with as it comes along.
The headline of the thread, however, that's just juvenile and totally unnecessary.
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I have some time so ...
"I do believe that there is more to man than basic animal instinct." It's probably language. Language takes our ideas and puts them 'out there' as if they were real, objective things. And with langauge we can mix and match words - color with object with number, to model something we may never have seen before. B/c of that, we feel there's some 'ideal' form out there and then generalize to other hypothetical ideals.
"I prize that decision making ability above any possessions that I own."
And yet, many decisions are made due to subtle factors large and small of which we are completely unaware. SignyM posted something a while back that I'll try to outline. One example is a person sitting watching TV even though there's nothing really interesting on. Now they might just continue to sit there, or they could turn off the TV and get up. Some things that might go into either decision are: are they hungry, cold, or do they need to go to the bathroom? If so they might be more inclined to get up. Are they anxious and restless? Or are they tired or depressed? Are they comfortable? And so on.
You may think you're deciding, while in fact you're responding to internal and external cues you are not even aware of.
"One very common instance of animal homosexuality is when the dominant Alpha male gets the pick of the best females, the lesser males are left with a much smaller pool of females, if any at all, to choose from ..."
This is a model of behavior that isn't supported by observation. If you look at primates for example, the 'alpha male' doesn't mate with all the females or even most of them. And the females often prefer the other males, where they both go off to quiet trysts together.
In fact, the 'alpha male' model of behavior is so fruitless scientists are trying to figure out why it even exists.
"Again, it is their choice."
I tried posting an analogy about right handed v left handed v ambidexterous but apparently it was too subtle. It is exactly analogous to sexual preference. You don't 'decide' to be more comfortable using your left hand or right, or either, you just are. The same is true of sexual preference - you just are more comfortable with one or the other , or either. (Which often happen at an early age BTW - far before going off to college or even puberty.)
"I have a question for you, Rue. Why do you think that women are much more prone to being bi-sexual, rather than 100% gay, while men are usually one or the other? "
There are a lot of 'closet' gays out there - married family men who stop off at the park to 'relieve stress' who would never identify themselves as gay. There are also a lot of 'closet bi's' who would never admit that part of themselves, even to themselves. It's double-think hammered in by cultural attitudes. If you are male and gay or bi you are weak and a target for abuse. Best not to be either.
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Wow! This post has been liberating!
I'm not in control of anything I do, because it's going to happen without my consent anyhow. I shall feel no guilt about the consequences that arise out of this knowledge.
....Obviously I'm not a big fan of Government, but sometimes it's a good thing there is a government keeping people in line who really believe they have no control over their actions. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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6, what are you doing here if your not willing to actually talk?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:It's sad and a little amazing to me that this is all you've gotten out of this discussion.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Wow! This post has been liberating!
I'm not in control of anything I do, because it's going to happen without my consent anyhow. I shall feel no guilt about the consequences that arise out of this knowledge.
....Obviously I'm not a big fan of Government, but sometimes it's a good thing there is a government keeping people in line who really believe they have no control over their actions.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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