How will our beliefs change in 500 years?
POSTED BY: Siri
UPDATED: Friday, November 24, 2006 17:15
VIEWED: 7644
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Hi Siri, thanks for the topic.
I'm always so saddened when I read people's aswers to questions like yours; such a welter of pessimism and resignation. Do people have such a diminished sense of their own power that they don't see how they will will these wretched distopiae into reality if they can't wrap their minds around something new?
As the Chinese say, if you do not change direction, you will end up where you're headed.
I mean, here we are at the very center of the most transformative century or so of human history and all we can hope for is a repeat of the last 10,000 years?
I see Joss's 'verse as a cautionary tale, only (oh, and a pretty spot-on satire of what's going on right this minute 
). No way are the human animals in a position to "use up" this planet. I'm pretty sure she's got a few aces up her sleave so if we get too toxic for her, she'll more'n likely just shrug us off.
The two greatest mysteries of existence in the context of this question for me are growth and healing. Really, they're the same thing, only healing is a return to wholeness while growth describes the miraculous process of becoming whole where such wholeness has not seemed to exist. All life moves toward wholeness, toward completion, towards adulthood, if you will--but what do any of these words mean? What does it mean to be an adult, really? What are we completing? What is this wholeness, and how far does it extend? Is it only the individual that moves toward wholeness? Or do populations, whole species, or even an entire planetary organism move toward wholeness?
That's what we're finding out. Human beings are on the brink of understanding ourselves and our world in some fundamental and unprecidented ways. Developmental psychology, for instance, the understanding that the needs of the human organism change profoundly over the course of one's life, is a brand new idea.
Until the last century children were simply small, savage, mentally inferior adults we could routinely overpower and generally did. Even today, parents reason that they must teach children about "reality" by subjecting them to their anger and their punishment.
But a study of developmental psychology reveals that children that are given the most nurturing, the most forgiveness, the most gentle consideration, far from growing up weak and "dependent," grow up to be confident, effective adults. As it turns out, many of the needs of children are very different than the needs of adults, and for tens of thousands of years adult needs have simply overridden all but the grossest needs of children with catastrophic and all too familiar results.
The fact that we have, over the past 100 years or so, gotten a frickin' clue, gives me hope.
I hope that over the next 500 years we as a species will grow to accept grief as something other than the Enemy. I look foward to the day when whole generations of boy children will feel free to cry when the urge takes them, a day when the intuitive power of children will be encouraged and nurtured rather than denied and destroyed.
I don't think it's impossible, or even very far-fetched. I look at the mainstreaming of psychoanalysis, the mainstreaming of twelve step culture, the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the men's movement, even the rise of Oprah Winfrey, all as indicators of where western society is actually headed.
I think the paradigm shift Rue's talking about may be a shift fully away from defining cultures in terms of wealth and political power. As humans learn about ourselves we may find less and less validation in these loveless, material constructs and get more and more of our needs met through connectedness and honest desire.
Anyway, that's the future I'm working towards. 
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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I haven't got a lot of responses to my question, which is one I think about a lot, in various different scenarios - not always 500 years and Firefly related. I was thinking maybe it wasn't such a good question - perhaps not for this venue.
Yes, I agree, the world may just kick us off - who knows how things will really shake out. A few minor shifts here and there - and poof! major consequences - good or bad - which again may be relative to the situation and event.
Thanks HDCavalier, for your thoughtful response, I, too, am hopeful and I want to do what I can to be part of the solution. I think about what the world was like 500 years ago, the sixteenth century. Yes, some things are the same but I do believe we have made progress - not just technologically but emotionally and psychologically.
Siri
BTW - I'm struggling getting the quote thing right - still working on it.
"Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean."
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Not to be snarky, but...
HKCavalier offers:
"I look at the mainstreaming of psychoanalysis, the mainstreaming of twelve step culture... all as indicators of where western society is actually headed."
I just had to pull these particular two examples out. Psychoanalysis and the twelve-step culture are a couple of the things that will, in my estimation, help to hold us back. They are junk science. Not unlike some of our other "advances," such as revisionist history, the rise of fundamentalist/extremist religions, and the rise of Uri Geller to fame, this sort of thing often seems to be on the rise (yeah, Geller's out of date, I should've maybe used John Edwards the "psychic" instead).
I'll give you most of your other examples as ways that we have, in fact, moved forward as a species -- or, at least, as some parts of the species have moved forward. But, when you lump pseudoscience in amongst 'em, it's like you're taking one step forward and two steps back. I can only hope that your other examples outweigh these, but often, I don't see that as the case...
My opinion only, as this thread is purely speculative from its' inception.
http://www.myspace.com/captainzeph
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Heya Zeph,
Not to be snarky back, but...
How do you come by your knowledge that psychoanalysis is psuedoscience? And what do you know of 12 step culture? And why the heck didn't ya bash Oprah when you had the chance???
Seems to me, unchecked narcissism and sociopathy are what's holding us back. Alcoholism and a culture of addiction are holding us back. A culture that denies healing and dismisses what it doesn't understand is holding us back.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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HK--
Well, a couple of quick links, there are plenty of others...
Psychoanalysis:
http://skepdic.com/psychoan.html
12-stepping:
http://www.bee.net/cardigan/attic/guest09.htm
These are from about two minutes of searching. (If you were, say, a neighbor, I could bog ya down with a few dozen books, but this is easily accesible online) Both belief systems are based on non-falsifiable hypotheses, which is one of the biggest indicators of pseudoscience. And yes, you may think either or both sources are biased, but that don't make 'em wrong... 
Not much point in bashing Oprah, in my opinion. She's a talk-show host -- I just don't consider her as anything more than that. Now, if you had mentioned Dr. Phil, that'd be a whole other story...
Narcissum I might give you, but sociopathy is a pretty specific psychological diagnosis -- I haven't seen any indication that it has become any more widespread than it has at any time in the past, except that there are more people in general on the planet, therefore more sociopaths. The rate of occurence has shown no indication of increasing.
Again, I was only pointing out a couple of specific examples out of your post, not using that to dismiss the entire thesis.
http://www.myspace.com/captainzeph
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Thanks, Zeph, for the links. I'll check them out and get back to you.
Quote:To clarify: I was in no way suggesting that sociopathic behavior was on the rise (it's diagnosis, however, is on the rise). No, I think the damage to the human psyche from systematic abuse in childhood throughout history has been a major factor in keeping humans violent and stupid.
Originally posted by Zeph:
Narcissum I might give you, but sociopathy is a pretty specific psychological diagnosis -- I haven't seen any indication that it has become any more widespread than it has at any time in the past, except that there are more people in general on the planet, therefore more sociopaths. The rate of occurence has shown no indication of increasing.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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In support of HK there are two studies:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061012190132.htm
Early Family Experience Can Reverse The Effects Of Genes, Psychologists Report
Among children from supportive, nurturing families, those with the short form of the serotonin transporter gene (known as 5-HTTLPR) had a significantly reduced risk for depression ...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061102092229.htm
Low Levels Of Neurotransmitter Serotonin May Perpetuate Child Abuse Across Generations
Infant abuse may be perpetuated between generations by changes in the brain induced by early experience, research shows at the University of Chicago shows.
A research team found that when baby rhesus monkeys endured high rates of maternal rejection and mild abuse in their first month of life, their brains often produced less serotonin ... Abused females who became abusive mothers in adulthood had lower serotonin in their brains than abused females who did not become abusive parents, the research showed.
The study is the first to show that naturally occurring individual variation in maternal behavior in monkeys can affect the brain development of the offspring, and the first to show a link between serotonin and infant abuse in primates.
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Can't reply in any but the briefest form because the topic really deerves more thought than I've given it.
HK- One of the things that strikes me, in my old(er) age, is that while I was taught how to be a good child I was never taught how to become an effective adult. I know that sounds strange... but for all of my various achievements (such as they are) and experiences I sometimes feel as if I'm dealing with life with the emotional tools of a 10-year-old. And as I look around it seems to me that we should have some sort of mentoring program on how to be a whole adult human being. There must be a crying need for it because otherwise we wouldn't have so many "advice" shows and books. So maybe the first step in the paradigm change is to be able to build our emotional wisdom over time and not lose it with each generation.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeph:
HK--
Well, a couple of quick links, there are plenty of others...
Psychoanalysis:
http://skepdic.com/psychoan.html
12-stepping:
http://www.bee.net/cardigan/attic/guest09.htm
These are from about two minutes of searching. (If you were, say, a neighbor, I could bog ya down with a few dozen books, but this is easily accesible online) Both belief systems are based on non-falsifiable hypotheses, which is one of the biggest indicators of pseudoscience. And yes, you may think either or both sources are biased, but that don't make 'em wrong...
Not much point in bashing Oprah, in my opinion. She's a talk-show host -- I just don't consider her as anything more than that. Now, if you had mentioned Dr. Phil, that'd be a whole other story...
Narcissum I might give you, but sociopathy is a pretty specific psychological diagnosis -- I haven't seen any indication that it has become any more widespread than it has at any time in the past, except that there are more people in general on the planet, therefore more sociopaths. The rate of occurence has shown no indication of increasing.
Again, I was only pointing out a couple of specific examples out of your post, not using that to dismiss the entire thesis.
http://www.myspace.com/captainzeph
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And just to plug my POV here -
Due to technology humanity is no longer living on the edge of survival. Unless we truly incorporate that in our concepts, laws, economies and religions, we will abuse resources and over-produce offspring - all the way over the edge of the cliff.
It is a FACT that we can all live a secure existance. We need to come to grips with that for our long-term survival and the survival of the planet.
And when we develop the societies where individuals feel secure, human development will change. (Like the peaceful baboons and the chimps who were driven to aggression only when food was placed in a single pile - our initial conditions drive our behaviors.)
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