Mac vs. PC

POSTED BY: Gomithrous
UPDATED: Friday, November 17, 2006 19:02
VIEWED: 11098
PAGE 6 of 6

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
This is rather irritating (though I've never bought anything from iTunes). But, don't they have to open this up for interoperability reasons in Europe (or for some country therein)? This would then translate to openness in general, yes?

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Look, seriously, Apple is more closed than MS, about the only thing MS has going for it is it's openness to outside developers.

The Zune WILL have an SDK, Creative MP3's DO have SDKs, along with numerous others, they either have SDKs or work on open standards that have SDKs, all that is save Apple. Which was what I was talking about 'complaining about' if you will, and is still 100% correct.

If however you can prove me wrong go ahead, I'd like a link to the SDK, or information on how to obtain it without becoming an Apple sponsored developer, since I'm currently developing a product that requires interface with MP3 devices it would prove invaluable to me.

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This has always been the case. In the PC world we get to lego the computer. Not so in the Mac world. It really is a matter of preference (how is this bad in general?). BUT, it must be said that this wasn't always the case. In years past Motorola was allowed to make clones but Apple killed that. This was rather a bad move as then Motorola had a quiet hissy fit by not developing Apples chips with anything resembling speed resulting in the Intel switch.

Again, this is a matter of preference. Do I care about playing with the hardware? Certainly not. Couldn't care less.

The only thing that I want is quality (i.e. It just works). I get that with Apple, and have had stupid amounts of problems with the last PC that I bought.

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You ask me why I think Apple is monopolistic, I give you reasons, you say it's all right because you like it that way. I'm curious as to how you liking the bonuses to Apples monopolistic behaviour proves they are not monopolistic.

Additionally both IBM and Motorola produced PowerPC chips, in fact it's an IBM design licensed from IBM not Apple. One of the major reasons for the Switch was not Motorola's 'hissy fit' it was because the PowerPC chips Apple were using are ten year old technology.

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It's been a while since I've done a fresh install of OS X, so I don't remember if gcc is bundled with the OS. But I think that it's on the install CD's. Even if it isn't, it would come with XCode which is downloadable from there developers website. XCode is a wonderful IDE which is FREE. M$ cannot claim such a thing.

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What? MS isn't synonymous with IBM PCs like Apple is synonymous with Macs. By implying it is you are grossly misstating the issue. Also I'm talking about SDKs, not compilers/IDEs. SDK's are software and documentation that allows a developer to develop for a specific platform. The gcc C++ compiler is freely available for the PC, and is not an Apple product, as are many other compilers for C++ and others. And actually the latest Microsoft Visual C++ Optimising Compiler which is supirior to the GCC, perhaps second only to Borland's, is freely available for download:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/default.aspx
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Other-Programming-Files/Micro
soft-Visual-C-Toolkit.shtml

So further on where you 'prove' there are no hoops to jump through for Apple SDK's you are proving that there are no hoops to jump through when getting a compiler that will run on a Mac. My point on SDK's still stands.

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I'm going to have to say that this is a bunch of crap (yes, you've hit a nerve with me).

Apple never was about just the hardware, or just the OS, or just any one thing. It is about getting a stable computer in the hands of the user that is trivial to setup and use.

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An IBM PC is a PC that uses an architecture compatible with the IBM PC standard first laid down in the 1980's but subsequently built on to produce the modern 32 and 64 bit machines. Apple Mac's are now running on IBM compatible architecture, so they are IBM PCs, it can be no clearer than t

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
So, you've upgraded yourselve to as stable, maybe more so, to (paraphrase) "definitely, Apple doesn't know what it's doing, I'm so much better at choosing hardware then they are."

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Well why not, it's exactly what Apple and it's Mac Evangelists have done. But more specifically I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. At best what you've just done is completely misunderstand my statements and assume you know my entire reasoning, at worst you've flat out lied and spun my comments in order to discredit someone you disagree with.

I can build a better more stable PC than any PC manufacturer, and I can build a PC that is better and more stable than a Mac. That doesn't mean I think Apple doesn't know what it's doing, it means that I can build a PC that is faster and more stable than a mass produced factory model.

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I could ask you what your problem is right now as you've just contradicted yourself i.e. How in the world does two applications, one more stable than the other, make the PC just as good at "it" as the Mac?

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I'd ask you what your problem is since you are talking to me like a piece of shit, but I imagine it's because I dare DARE I tell you to suggest that Steve Jobs isn't god and Apple isn't heaven. IBMs and Macs competed side by side and you know what, Macs lost. It's not a Betamax versus VHS issue, IBM's had clear advantages over Macs that more marketable over the advantages of the Mac over the IBM.

And why is the PC just as good as the Mac, fact is the PC could produce the same results just as easily as the Mac, the Mac is more stable which is why the professionals use them for those tasks, doesn't mean the PC can't do things just as well.

What it does mean is that for those professional high end users its a better choice.

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Honestly, this is a ridiculous statment; completely unsupported. All that we conslusively knwow is that more games run on PC's. This says NOTHING about which one is "better for gaming".

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No, the above is a ridiculous statement. PC's have games, Mac's don't and in your mind that means the Mac's might be better? The graphics hardware for games is available for PCs, not so much for Macs. Mac's used to have games, they were of poorer quality than PC games, for a number of reasons, and didn't sell well.

Which reason do you want to take for PC's being better gaming platforms? Marketability, the fact that there's hardware for the PC's to run them that isn't available for the Mac? The fact that there is actually games for the PC? What reason do you want?

I had a 1ltr Nissan Micra once, now I'm sure that could have beaten a TVR in a race, you know if you completely rebuilt the Chassis and put in a more powerful engine, but it *could*.

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I can't really argue with that; this is a ridiculous statment.

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What?

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You certainly can NOT prove "that PC's are the better choice for most people, which is why most people buy them." People buy what is in front of them and what is in front of them is Windows Windows Windows. It is the same reason why people go to Walmart.

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I most certainly can. Mac caters to specialists and high end markets. Most people aren't specialists or in the high end. I've done my homework and I can conclusively say that I can buy a PC for less than £300 pounds, but the cheapest Mac available is £900. Fine they are catering to the high end, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of people who want to surf the net, send the odd email and write a letter every now and then would be better off with a Mac that costs 3 times as much as a the machine that would cater to their needs. I'm not guessing or spreading propeganda about that, it's even stated by Apple in their business plan

And no for the average user Linux can never be considered better, the average user doesn't want a 'better' OS that is more stable, they want an OS that is easy to use and does just about everything for them, and brother, that ain't Linux.

A Windows PC is the best op

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yes, well sorry for having an opinion. Notice I didn't mention people who like macs are idiots(not accusing anyone...not at all). Besides, it was a joke. JOKE. Like I said, macs are useful/OK, but not for me.
I edited the other one, happy. I don't see how I was being a troll, 'sniff'.
Anyway off topic so going away.

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Originally posted by citizen:

Look, seriously, Apple is more closed than MS, about the only thing MS has going for it is it's openness to outside developers.

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You keep saying that, but keep failing to show this. Furthermore, M$ is NOT open to outside developers. Or do you have access to there source? B/c I certainly don't, nor do I know anyone with that access.

You also keep switching contexts. Are we talking about openness with regards to hardware? B/c if we are then it is a moot point in the discussion comparing Apple and M$ b/c M$ is not in the hardware market to any degree near Apple. As far as I know they only deal with peripheral devices and not computers themselves. And peripherals by there nature cannot be played around with in a hardware fashion (not easily at least).

Or are we talking about source? B/c Apple is quite open in that regards. Hell, they just opened the source for Xnu PPC. So, now outside developers have access to both the Intel AND PPC versions OF THE KERNEL! Apple also worked with the FreeBSD project AND GAVE BACK SOME IMPROVEMENTS! Can we say the same thing about M$?

So, we have M$ not nearly as open as Apple with regards to source, and M$ vs Apple with regards to hardware is rather moot by its very nature. Not if we enter in Intel, etc into the picture and have a big the whole PC world vs the whole Mac world, then you would have a point. BUT, the context of our current discussion is JUST M$ vs Apple. So, lets keep that in mind.

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Originally posted by citizen:

The Zune WILL have an SDK, Creative MP3's DO have SDKs, along with numerous others, they either have SDKs or work on open standards that have SDKs, all that is save Apple. Which was what I was talking about 'complaining about' if you will, and is still 100% correct.

If however you can prove me wrong go ahead, I'd like a link to the SDK, or information on how to obtain it without becoming an Apple sponsored developer, since I'm currently developing a product that requires interface with MP3 devices it would prove invaluable to me.

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Google iTunes SDK. I believe it's through applescript. Sure it isn't a direct interface to an iPod, but it still works.

There is also:

GnuPod:
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnupod/

GtkPod:
Which contains the wonderful libgpod.so

http://www.gtkpod.org/about.html

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Originally posted by citizen:

You ask me why I think Apple is monopolistic, I give you reasons, you say it's all right because you like it that way. I'm curious as to how you liking the bonuses to Apples monopolistic behaviour proves they are not monopolistic.

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Don't put words in my mouth. I never said I liked it that way, I said I didn't care. There IS a difference. For that matter, most people don't care either. So, don't try to make it look like it's just me.

Furthermore, how is this a feather in the bonnet of M$ when they don't do computers JUST the OS (basically).

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Originally posted by citizen:

Additionally both IBM and Motorola produced PowerPC chips, in fact it's an IBM design licensed from IBM not Apple. One of the major reasons for the Switch was not Motorola's 'hissy fit' it was because the PowerPC chips Apple were using are ten year old technology.

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Link me.

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Originally posted by citizen:

What? MS isn't synonymous with IBM PCs like Apple is synonymous with Macs. By implying it is you are grossly misstating the issue.

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What the hell are you talking about? Re-read my post.

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Originally posted by citizen:

Also I'm talking about SDKs, not compilers/IDEs. SDK's are software and documentation that allows a developer to develop for a specific platform. The gcc C++ compiler is freely available for the PC, and is not an Apple product, as are many other compilers for C++ and others. And actually the latest Microsoft Visual C++ Optimising Compiler which is supirior to the GCC, perhaps second only to Borland's, is freely

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