Mac vs. PC
POSTED BY: Gomithrous
UPDATED: Friday, November 17, 2006 19:02
VIEWED: 11098
PAGE 5 of 6
Quote:Run 3D Studio Max. And until the recent move Apple has made to turn the Mac into an IBM PC any credible 3D application.
Originally posted by BionicBatman:
So other than games what do you Windows, Linux, and other PC lovers think the Mac cant that your computer can?
What do I win?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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LOVE the cartoon comparing Mac and PC in reference to the Mac Commercials... wow that was long winded.
Personally, I've never really used a Mac. I hear they are good for graphics and media type stuff, but that many things don't work on them.
In all reality I don't care which is better. Let's expand this argument to cars; which is better Toyota or Ford or Honda or Jeep or ... Does it matter, they're all still on the road!
And if someday on some little piss-ant moon/My hand is a little too slow, or my aim a little bit off/At least I’ll go down fighting, not lying abed surrounded by quacks - "Sir Warrick" by Geezer
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Run 3D Studio Max. And until the recent move Apple has made to turn the Mac into an IBM PC any credible 3D application.
Originally posted by BionicBatman:
So other than games what do you Windows, Linux, and other PC lovers think the Mac cant that your computer can?
What do I win?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
And what does 3D studio Max do? Cause i 100% guarentee you a Mac can do just the same! O and you win nothing.
Tristan, I'm just saying a Mac can do anything a PC can. They are the same thing except for gaming but that doesnt count.
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It's a 3D modelling application. And no the Mac, until being converted to an IBM PC, couldn't do it. It's only recently that Alias Maya has been ported to the Intel Mac's.
3D modelling on the Mac is relatively new, professional 3D modelling on the Mac has appeared this year and professionals USING the Mac for modelling is non-existent. The Mac can't run 3DS Max, no ifs, no buts, no "but if the Mac can't do it it's stupid". It. Can't. Do. It.
I considered Macs, I didn't go that route for several reasons, I play games, not often but occasionally, Mac's don't run hardly any of my Software, and getting Windows on even the Intel Macs is difficult due to lack of driver support (and if your going to do that anyway there's no point buying a Mac) and I can build a faster cheaper and more stable system than I can get from a pre built manufacturer, including Apple.
I really don't get what your problem is. I've already said that Macs and PCs have their strengths, Macs are more widely used for Video editing and production 2D. Not that they are any better at it than PC's, they're just what the professionals use, probably because Apples monopolistic control of the hardware means they can be made more stable for said applications.
PC's have conclusively proven they are better for gaming, something you want to play down I can only assume because it's something the Mac can't do.
Your argument boils down subsequently to:
Mac's can do almost everything PC's can do, but those things they can't do don't matter because I don't want to do them, and people who do are wrong. Your personal choice of PC's over Macs are wrong because, I say so that's why.
I'm afraid it's not an argument that impresses me much. I don't want to discuss what's best Mac or IBM, but if you really want to push it I can conclusively prove to you that PC's are the better choice for most people, which is why most people buy them.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gomithrous:
Just a simple thread, wanted to know what people prefer so here it goes... Which is better, Mac or PC?
I think that's an unanswerable question... all I can speak to is my preference (which I think is what you are really asking anyways).
I've been an engineer for about 28 years. The company I work at mandates the use of Windows-based PCs. I find them to be serviceable machines.
However, my preference is for the Mac. At home, I use a Mac G5 tower. I surf the internet, email, record my own music, use Microsoft Office, and learn a foreign language on it. I don't play shoot-em-ups (embarrassing admission here... they make me motion sick!). So that is no loss to me. I have added a second hard drive (to the spare internal bay) for backups.
My wife used Macs for several years then switched to PCs because her quilting SW would only run on Windows. A lightning strike to the house cooked her Dell. When she discovered that we could get an iMac that would dual boot (OS X/Windows), that was what she opted to get. After doing the research, I spent about $200 more for the iMac (bundled with Boot Camp and Windows XP) than for an equivalent Dell... lo and behold, that turns out to be near the retail cost of the Windows XP OS that it came bundled with.
So now, she keeps all our sensitive financial info on the Mac partition. And the quilting SW and adventure games that we like to play are on the PC partition. Win-win.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Try buying a song from iTunes, you aren't allowed to re-encode it (so you aren't allowed to listen to it on anything but an Apple iPod) for this reason and others Apples DRM is even more restrictive than MS's. Who, exactly, does Apple think they are telling me how and where I may listen to music I have paid for?
This is rather irritating (though I've never bought anything from iTunes). But, don't they have to open this up for interoperability reasons in Europe (or for some country therein)? This would then translate to openness in general, yes?
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
iPods are completely closed, you can't even get an SDK for them (I've tried), as has been shown by others if your iPods battery dies it's cheaper to buy a new unit than to get a new battery installed.
I imagine that Zune will be closed as well. Having closed hardware/software is nothing new in this arena. In fact, it should be expected. So, why you are complaining about this is beyond me.
Furthermore, having replacement cost less than repair cost is nothing new as well. Ever try to get a monitor fixed (any make)? Or how about a printer?
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Apple restricts Hardware, I can buy an x86 pc chip from a number of companies for insertion into a PC, for Macs you have a choice of who Apple decides can produce Mac chips (currently Intel, used to be IBM with the PowerPC). It goes even further than that, the chipset is Intel, compare this to the PC, where you can have a VIA, NVidia, AMD or any number of other chipsets.
This has always been the case. In the PC world we get to lego the computer. Not so in the Mac world. It really is a matter of preference (how is this bad in general?). BUT, it must be said that this wasn't always the case. In years past Motorola was allowed to make clones but Apple killed that. This was rather a bad move as then Motorola had a quiet hissy fit by not developing Apples chips with anything resembling speed resulting in the Intel switch.
Again, this is a matter of preference. Do I care about playing with the hardware? Certainly not. Couldn't care less.
The only thing that I want is quality (i.e. It just works). I get that with Apple, and have had stupid amounts of problems with the last PC that I bought.
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Where as Windows has their SDKs for download by anyone who wants, and obviously its even easier for open source operating Systems like Linux. Compare this to Apple, who if they do bother to release an SDK make you jump through hoops and often be a registered developer to get at it. As for MS being monopolistic (and I agree) Apple is even worse, they decide everything from the Software to the Hardware, and if buying a Mac it's Apple or nothing.
It's been a while since I've done a fresh install of OS X, so I don't remember if gcc is bundled with the OS. But I think that it's on the install CD's. Even if it isn't, it would come with XCode which is downloadable from there developers website. XCode is a wonderful IDE which is FREE. M$ cannot claim such a thing.
Yes, registration is required, but I really don't mind it all that much. It's a very low volume mailing list and I appreciate knowing when new versions are available. So, just 1 hoop.
I will also mention that gcc is in darwinports. So, this whole jumping through hoops is somewhat unnecessary if one wants to go that route. So, there IS choice in the software.
Not only that but the one can install different OS's as well. I mentioned above that I run OpenBSD on my mini, but linux would run on it as well. BeOS ran on PPC hardware when they were around and the Haiku OS project is making strides getting that to run on PPC hardware as well. There are most likely others too.
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
But nowadays Apples are little more than glorified IBM's anyway, they run on IBM compatNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:
Well I wasn't really "bitching" about anything. I was speaking about hardware...I clearly don't know as much as some people on this board, but my understanding is that if you want a bigger hd, more RAM, new video card, etc., you have to go through Apple. I can do all that myself with a PC.
With something like the mini it's rather difficult, BUT if you google for hardware upgrade there are very detailed instructions on how to do it. That being said, if one gets one of the Mac Pro's it's a lot easier.
But, one doesn't have to go through Apple, just an authorized dealer. I make this distinction as it is the difference between a trip across town as opposed to paying for shipping to Apple themselves. But, this is something that most PC users would do as well.
Also, upgrading the hardware all the time is a mentality within the PC "culture" not the Mac "culture". Please note that don't really care about upgrading hardware (at least themselves). But again, the vast majority of PC users are of the same mentality.
Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:
I was slightly unclear. I was not claiming that the MS people invented it, simply that it seems the people at Apple treat old news as their innovation.
Really? I didn't get that. Though that ball on the mouse instead of a wheel I think was a first. Yes/no? Still, the Mighty Mouse is way too expensive.
Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:
Well technically I'm not an engineer yet, I still need to pass my classes this semester and 14 more hours next semester. I wasn't saying that there aren't any scientific applications for Macs. I was commenting from my 1.5 years of experience (small sample, granted) that I've only used Unix and Windows systems in the industry.
What you have admitted is what is known as academic dishonesty i.e. you have claimed credentials that you do NOT posses. I imagine that if word got out that you've done this, there'd be some rather irritated people.
And your original statement implied that Mac's were useless for scientific computing.
At any rate, thanks for the clarification.
Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:
Can't answer that, but just because you haven't experienced it (or participated in it) doesn't make my past experience any less true.
So, you've had an experience, but you can't say where it came from. That it? B/c I was NOT looking for an address. I was looking for a "Some guy overheard me in a bar and started pissing about" or "I was on webforum X and..." or something along those lines.
And if you can't give me an answer like the above, I'm going to have to call bullshit on your story (though I fully believe that such people exist).
Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:
Well:
1.)I think the monopoly business was that MS packages additional software with the OS. MS is getting in trouble with the EU and so on because Windows includes WMP and IE so the EU thinks that this gives MS a monopoly with media players and browsers. Besides, most of the complaints lately about MS not working with developers is because it seems they're trying to keep the Vista source from as many people as possible. Can't tell yet if that's a wise business move.
That was only part of it. Stifling of innovation was a large chunk of it as well.
Quote:
Originally posted by jpstargazer:Quote:
3) Apple has gone out of there way to get Windows to run on intel Macs. M$ has NOT done anything to get Mac OS X to run on PC's. So, don't bitch at Apple for providing a service to its users that M$ is NOT providing to theres.
3.)Of course Apple has focused on getting the Mac OS to run on Intel chips...all Macs run on Intel chips now (or at least I think all of them do).
Um, I think you didn't read what I posted. What I was getting at is that Apple got Windows to run on its hardware, but M$ has NO
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Posted by ZEEK:
"""
and one bug sad something about mac users having a problem. The teamlead looked at it for a minute then crumpled up the paper and threw it over his shoulder. We laughed for about 5 minutes and then got back to distributing work. Not that it's the best business model but it sure raise morale briefly.
"""
I find it interesting that PC users get pissy when a PPC guy does this, but if a PPC guy does this, it's a horror!
@Terri:
"""
More software is compatible
"""
Depends on what you're doing.
"""
and it's less expensive
"""
Clearly not true, read the thread.
"""
and as my experience has gone it's easier to upgrade
"""
Upgrade what? OS? Hardware?
@LITTLEALBATROSS:
"""
I don't understand why people get so caught up in proving one is better/worse than the other. Does it really matter?
"""
Everyone gets caught up in something. My personal problem with conversations like this is when people clearly don't have the facts straight e.g. Terri. Thus I correct them. But, at the same time, I'll admit when what I like has weaknesses, e.g. lake of games, slower with security fixes then I'd like, shoting themselves in the foot when it comes to there virus commericial, etc.
@PH4NTMN3SS:
Troll troll go away.
@Tristan:
"""
Let's see....the last time I used a Mac was waaay back in the early 90's.
"""
Things have definitely changed since the early 90's. I'd recommend at least poking around one in an Apple store before buying your next computre.
"""
Have not touched one since then; so I have no idea what they are capable of. Why don't you share your wisdom with the rest of the class and tell us why they are so much better?
"""
For what?
@Citizen:
"""
I can build a faster cheaper and more stable system than I can get from a pre built manufacturer, including Apple.
"""
So, you've upgraded yourselve to as stable, maybe more so, to (paraphrase) "definitely, Apple doesn't know what it's doing, I'm so much better at choosing hardware then they are."
"""
Not that they are any better at it than PC's, they're just what the professionals use, probably because Apples monopolistic control of the hardware means they can be made more stable for said applications.
"""
I could ask you what your problem is right now as you've just contradicted yourself i.e. How in the world does two applications, one more stable than the other, make the PC just as good at "it" as the Mac?
"""
PC's have conclusively proven they are better for gaming, something you want to play down I can only assume because it's something the Mac can't do.
"""
Honestly, this is a ridiculous statment; completely unsupported. All that we conslusively knwow is that more games run on PC's. This says NOTHING about which one is "better for gaming".
"""
Your argument boils down subsequently to:
Mac's can do almost everything PC's can do, but those things they can't do don't matter because I don't want to do them, and people who do are wrong. Your personal choice of PC's over Macs are wrong because, I say so that's why.
"""
I can't really argue with that; this is a ridiculous statment.
"""
I'm afraid it's not an argument that impresses me much. I don't want to discuss what's best Mac or IBM, but if you really want to push it I can conclusively prove to you that PC's are the better choice for most people, which is why most people buy them.
"""
You certainly can NOT prove "that PC's are the better choice for most people, which is why most people buy them." People buy what is in front of them and what is in front of them is Windows Windows Windows. It is the same reason why people go to Walmart.
People buy things because it is convinient and it does what they want it to. It must also be noted that it doesn't even have to do it well, it just has to do it. It also works wonders that a large chunk of society doesn't even know that other OS's exist, and if they know about other OS's, that they buy into the propaganda about Linux and BS t
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I use my mac for technical applications. A lot of bioengineering software exists for the Mac, and that makes it useful. Also my 12" Powerbook is small and runs in a stable fashion (I encounter memory leaks infrequently enough that I can leave my computer on for a few weeks at a time without major performance hits).
This is useful for some things, but not for others; for mobility and as a tool, I wouldn't use an IBM Compatible, though I do use one for hobbies; specifically for the gaming and RPG work that I do.
Linux is an interesting option, but it's summed up by the following quotation: "Linux is only free if your time is worthless." I think when this computer needs to be replaced by a newer Mac, I'll turn what's left of it into a Linux machine for fun.
"See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."
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Quote:
Originally posted by freeradical42:
Linux is an interesting option, but it's summed up by the following quotation: "Linux is only free if your time is worthless."
Well said.
----------
Do you know what your sin is Captain?
Aww hell, I'm a big fan of all seven.
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