Look, I know it's been overdone - but abortion - yay or nay?
POSTED BY: FLF
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 13:13
VIEWED: 24147
PAGE 5 of 26
Is it bollocks.
Firstly the wording makes it more sound like will the potentially, and suggests that abortion is the same as killing a child. You're setting up the pro-life abortion is murder side as the moderate option. But I guess that wouldn't be deceptive now, because whatever comes from you is fact right.
Secondly we can already tell that 20% of embryos don't make it within the first few weeks. A great deal of pregnancies require medical intervention to bring to term. Pregnancy in Humans is much more dangerous and less successful than other animals, that's a fact. The potentiallity between an embryo becoming a child and a child becoming an adult are not the same thing.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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"There is no more question about whether a human fetus will potentially develop into a human child ..." Assuming of course everything goes normally.
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I wasn't aborted, so I'd prefer not to have that option available to be used on my children.
Guy killed me Mal. He killed me with a sword.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Eric,
"you're still going to get a multitude of answers"
Such was the case with death, until the medical and legal community settled on 'brain death'.
True true. Dumb thing for me to say. But the same community settles on personhood as being bestowed at birth, and clearly there has not been as much consensus on it among the public at large, or this debate wouldn't exist. The focus of it should I think shift there instead of the inflammatory extremes of "You hate women!" vs "You hate babies!"
But if there is an answer, it exists independent of what anyone believes (unless you believe in Bush-style subjective reality, like 2 + 2 = 5 if you really want it to). Until it can be found, 'I don't know' is the only valid response.
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Finn,
Here's a link for your education: http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/HumanBioogy/birth_defects.htm
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"There is no more question about whether a human fetus will potentially develop into a human child ..." Assuming of course everything goes normally.
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Anyway, for those who've had a chance to ponder the above site, let me just use a hackneyed but appropriate phrase: there's many a slip twixt cup and lip.
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Quote:That’s your imagination.
Originally posted by citizen:
Firstly the wording makes it more sound like will the potentially, and suggests that abortion is the same as killing a child. You're setting up the pro-life abortion is murder side as the moderate option. But I guess that wouldn't be deceptive now, because whatever comes from you is fact right.
Quote:So what? Show me a fully developed human fetus that is not a human, and I’ll reword my post. It is a fact that a human fetus develops into a human child, not a chicken or a cow. Unless, like rue, you define people with physical abnormalities as not being human, but that is a compassionless opinion that I doubt many people will be willing to accept.
Originally posted by citizen:
Secondly we can already tell that 20% of embryos don't make it within the first few weeks. A great deal of pregnancies require medical intervention to bring to term. Pregnancy in Humans is much more dangerous and less successful than other animals, that's a fact. The potentiallity between an embryo becoming a child and a child becoming an adult are not the same thing.
Quote:A human being with a deformity is not human? So your definition of someone’s humanity is dependent on how normal they appear? Granted birth defects can be horrifying, but I’m not sure I’m ready to say they aren’t human.
Originally posted by rue:
Here's a link for your education: http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/HumanBioogy/birth_defects.htm
Is an adult with Elephantiasis human? Someone suffering from skeletal dwarfism can often appear very different, should these people not be considered human?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Eric,
AFAIC, the answer is always socially defined. Why was the end of human life defined the way it was? It was a consensus answer reached after MUCH struggle and debate. The same will be true of the beginning of human life. I simply proposed what seemed to me a viable (ahem) definition.
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Quote:Someone say 'black and white'?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
So this “black and white thing,” as you say, goes in some terrifying directions that I don’t ever want to have to seriously debate.
Let's make it personal...
My mother gets prenant, and has me, unprepared psychologically, financially- whatever, and I have a resent filled and horrible childhood. NOT GOOD
My mother has me and gives me away; I got a 50/50 chance of either getting into a questionable adoption/not getting adopted, or finding myself in a good environment. MAYBE GOOD
I'm aborted, and go back to God, how can this be bad? GOOD
I'm aborted, and my soul just goes to the next available fetus presently under construction. GOOD
I'm aborted, and become nothing, which is sort of how I felt before I achieved a consciousness not yet available to me as a fetus. GOOD OR BAD NOT APPLICABLE AS LIFE IS MEANINGLESS
So, as we've learned today class, abortion is not as bad as we seem to think, eh?
Ducking the inevitable rocks for this Chrisisall
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Finn,
No I don't believe a simple deformity makes a fetus a non-person. But somewhere between a cleft palate and a mass of poorly differentiated tissues there is a dividing line between a child and a non-child.
I propose normal brain function as the line.
The other problem I have with your posts is that they confuse potential with actuality.
There is no more question about whether a human fetus will potentially develop into a human child ...
Show me a fully developed human fetus that is not a human ...
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