Look, I know it's been overdone - but abortion - yay or nay?
POSTED BY: FLF
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 13:13
VIEWED: 24147
PAGE 9 of 26
I wonder if Finn has gone off? End of discussion, and so on.
"Just because all humans were fetuses doesn't mean all fetuses are human. It'a a logical fallacy." THANK YOU.
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Quote:I don’t necessarily disagree, although I do have a problem with such “education” being used to promote sexual promiscuity. I think that abstinence needs to be stressed, in sex education, to adolescence. I don’t really think that 12 year olds need to be having sex for pleasure or any other reason.
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Unfortunately, there are far too many Americans who are more concerned that some people are having sex for pleasure and not paying the damn price of getting pregnant.
Quote:I’ve also said that abortion is not without justification too. Nice try.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Another comment- Finn, you'll defend to the death (so to speak) the rights of a fetus, and yet you've said that killing innocent civilians is a justifiable part of war. It seems to me that you are not so much "pro-life" as simply not willing to give up YOUR concepts and GOVERNMENT (and maybe even corporate) life and death perogatives.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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You're really not going to discuss your faulty argument anymore? Shall I conclude I won?
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FINN: I'm retierating my first question > Do you think because all humans were fetsuses that makes all fetsuses human?
Quote:Then please bear with me a repeat what YOU think the justifications are for abortion.
Another comment- Finn, you'll defend to the death (so to speak) the rights of a fetus, and yet you've said that killing innocent civilians is a justifiable part of war. It seems to me that you are not so much "pro-life" as simply not willing to give up YOUR concepts and GOVERNMENT (and maybe even corporate) life and death perogatives.-SignyM
I’ve also said that abortion is not without justification too. Nice try.- Finn
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:Quote:I don’t necessarily disagree, although I do have a problem with such “education” being used to promote sexual promiscuity. I think that abstinence needs to be stressed, in sex education, to adolescence. I don’t really think that 12 year olds need to be having sex for pleasure or any other reason.
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Unfortunately, there are far too many Americans who are more concerned that some people are having sex for pleasure and not paying the damn price of getting pregnant.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you that stressing abstinance in sex education classes is a good thing. The disagreement is when teaching abstinance is the only thing. Abstinance only education is a failure. The pregnancy rates actually go up. The leap I see you making, that I wouldn't make, is assuming that 12 year olds are not going to think about sex unless they are taught about contraception.
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I hate to post without reading anything, but the entire argument of abortion/anti-abortion always comes down to one basic difference of opinion. On that note, it helps to state it outright, instead of trying to sort through other, less pertinent opinions, beliefs and bias.
Where does human life begin?
The very fact that some people believe it is at conception, and others at a certain trimester, makes it impossible for a resolution to be reached on this issue.
What "Pro-Choice"ers often lack in understanding is that the opposite side see's a conceived baby as much a human as a newborn child. Trying to argue with them about that makes absolutely no sense, because it's not an "opinion", it's a belief. They define life differently, so to them it's like being asked to look the other way while murder's happening. You can't expect them to do that.
Conversely, what "Pro-Life"ers often lack in understanding is that the opposite side simply does not consider an impregnated egg life. Asking them to "feel" for an insentient, microscopic piece of biology just doesn't make any sense in their mind. And when you put it like that, why should it?
To reach an end on this issue, both sides have to agree one what does or does not define life. That's never going to happen, and this issue is never going to end. It is conflict, and it is what perpetuates our existence. What you all need to do is decide exactly how far you're willing to go to enforce and/or defend your side of it.
[IMG]
Place my body on a ship and burn it on the sea,
Let my spirit rise, Valkiries carry me.
Take me to Valhalla where my brothers wait for me.
Fires burn into the sky, my spirit will never die.
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A woman has ultimate rights to her own body.
As for all the nay-sayers. Put your money where your mouth is and support all the unwanted children you think should be born.
There are too many children without homes and too many children living in substandard homes. We don't need to add to the misery.
----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
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Quote:Is there some condition under which you would conclude otherwise? Really all you’ve done is to define my argument to be illogical, because you can’t think of an answer to it. But “fully developed” doesn’t have to mean a human adult, it just always will in the case of a human fetus. It’s not me that defined that, its nature. If you can show me an example of a human fetus becoming something other then human when it is fully developed and complete, then you’ve won. Good luck.
Originally posted by rue:
You're really not going to discuss your faulty argument anymore? Shall I conclude I won?
Quote:I’m not trying to make that leap. I’m not sure that I did, but if it came across that way, it wasn’t intended. There are always going to be a certain percentage of adolescent children who will get involved in sex and they will need to know and understand how to use conception to avoid doing anymore damage to their lives, because that alone can be enough to have a serious negative impact on their future. I’m not an expert in this area, but in my experience if contraception is where we are starting in our sex education, we’ve already lost. So abstinence should be the first and most heavily stressed thing that is taught in sex education, in my opinion.
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
The leap I see you making, that I wouldn't make, is assuming that 12 year olds are not going to think about sex unless they are taught about contraception.
Quote:All human fetuses are human. Goat fetuses are not.
Originally posted by SignyM:
FINN: I'm retierating my first question > Do you think because all humans were fetsuses that makes all fetsuses human?
Quote:I think all medically necessary abortions are always justified. That is when a doctor rules that such an abortion is necessary for the health of the mother.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Then please bear with me a repeat what YOU think the justifications are for abortion.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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"The very fact that some people believe it is at conception, and others at a certain trimester, makes it impossible for a resolution to be reached on this issue."
I believe resolution will happen. Just as end-of-human-life questions were resolved after extensive and prolonged debate (necessitated by life support technology), so beginning-of-human-life questions will also be resolved.
However, I disagree that all anti-choice people are motivated by the 'sanctity of life'. These are often the same people who make exceptions based on economics (social Darwinsism), war (killing is good), and the death penalty (in the name of 'justice').
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Quote:I agree, responsible adults should seriously consider adoption. People seem to view adoption as a “last resort,” but it would be nice if people would be more willing to consider it along with natural birth or maybe even instead. On the other hand, adoption can be very expensive. Sex often is not.
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
As for all the nay-sayers. Put your money where your mouth is and support all the unwanted children you think should be born.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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