I will not wear Firefly as if it were a Nike symbol on my chest.
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 22:15
VIEWED: 12867
PAGE 6 of 7
Baby,
"being a baby killer"
"aborted fetus of the Internet generation".
Cool, I feel so dirty right now. For which clinic do you work ? Do you do the cutting or the suction. You are a nasty nasty man. God bless you. Do you know that in late term abortions the baby screams out in the womb while being chainsawed into removable parts?(though I was aborted I don't recall making a peep, I'm good like that) You shouldn't use abortion in a post....Cause, it's taboo....Shame on you, Babygirl...Shame on you....Well, it's true......
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"The law is like the doors to a rich hotel, open to everyone."
Welcome to twentith century law, I'm afraid most of it is aimed directly at protecting property for those rich enough to say it's theirs.
Andy Warhols Cambels soup as before noted wouldn't last long today. It would be marked as a derivative work and cambel would expect damages.
The situation is simply stupid. I'm reminded of situations like Nissan suing a company similarly named Nissan after it's founder, after Nissan changed it's name from Datsun. How a company that changes it's name can sue another that has had the name for decades (and successfully too) boggles the mind.
Well not really, Datsun/Nissan had more money.
Anyone who thinks the law has anything to do with Justice is a bloody loony.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
"The law is like the doors to a rich hotel, open to everyone."
Welcome to twentith century law, I'm afraid most of it is aimed directly at protecting property for those rich enough to say it's theirs.
Anyone who thinks the law has anything to do with Justice is a bloody loony.
I'm an attorney and I believe the law has something to do with Justice. The more money you've got, the more Just it is. Just make sure my check don't bounce ...
J/K. What I meant to say is that the law is simply not coextensive with justice. It is a tool that can be made to serve, and wealth and power will do what they always do.
From what I've heard about the 11th hour thing, if they had money they could pay someone like me to tell Universal in the right legally cognizable manner to stuff most of their demands. Given that they probably don't, the intent of Universal's lawyers is to scare the crap out of them and get them to agree to whatever, since Universal knows full well that 11th hour cannot pay the money they're demanding.
If it were me I'd make a pleasant request first, but maybe there has been some prior correspondence we aren't privy to.
"When I write my memoirs, that sh!t'll be in there, guaranteed."
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RABBAN: Thanks for the positive input. Though it's not in as short supply as I may have thought at first, it's always great to have more support. Looking forward to seeing your products soon. Glad to have you on board. Let's be bad guys!
CITIZEN: I wasn't aware of the Nissan/Datsun situation, though it doesn't suprise me in the least. Justice in the new law goes to the higest bidder. I should do more research and see if Cambell's Soup is getting royalties for Warhol's work... That also, would not suprise me. Sometimes it sucks being a poor Browncoat, but I wouldn't trade it for the 'verse.
KAYNA: Thank you as well. I'm glad that I could put some of these thoughts into words for you. I haven't done much writing since high school, so I really didn't know that I had it in me all this time. Your feedback is greatly appreciated. I agree with you totally about Seryn's take on the situation as well. That's one firey little Brit who isn't walking through life with her eyes closed.
As for the calm and polite replys, I've found that people who disagree with you are much more prone to hear out your side of the debate if you present it in a calm and civilized manner. We're all Browncoats here, and I don't feel that there is any need for us to fight amongst ourselves. Those who feel it necessary to abuse themselves and their reputations by subjecting themselves on a daily basis to a thread which is so obviously traumatic to them they feel the need to berate and flame others, well..... let's just say that I'm not a fan of censorship.
I believe, with everything that I am, in our basic freedom of speech. This free-speech policy at FireFlyFans.net is one of the great attractions for me here. Sometimes, unfortunately, this gets abused and people use freedom of speech as a pass to say some very reprehensible things which really need not be said. I feel this is a reflection of the poor parenting they may have recieved and their inability to interact with people on a social level in the real world. It is a shame that a thread with intelligent points being made on both sides of the debate is being sullied by a few troglodytes who apprently have no other outlets for their hostility or any other ways to get their rocks off.
HELLSKITTEN: Looks like I missed your original post? I'm really curious to see what you had to say. I don't bite... well maybe I bite a litte. I'm sorry if anything I said in my last post to you may have gotten a little too deep under your skin. I assure you that it's nothing personal and that I'm not here to try to offend people. As I'm sure you're aware, I am very passionate about this issue and sometimes I can be a little overbearing and opinionated. I'm trying not to say anything personally offensive in here, but as with anything worth being passionate about, somebody usually gets hurt. I'm looking forward to hearing from you again.
BABYWITHTHEPOWER: I will not comment on what you have to say other than, I know you aren't like that and you shouldn't bring yourself down to anybody elses level. Don't join in the flame war. It only feeds their appetites.
And to all, I'm looking forward to your replies and I hope we can continue to have a healthy and educational debate for everyone. I am open to any ideas or suggestions or thoughts any of you have.
They can't stop the signal,
Mark
BTW.... If anybody can tell me why the name of my thread was changed to "RE:" and how we can change it back, it would be mighty appreciated. Thanks in advance.....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
There were others who obeyed the letter of the law.... Those were the Germans who followed the Nazis in WWII, when in their hearts they knew what they were doing and what was being done was wrong. They did this out of fear and because they had no power.
I realize that the Holocaust and copyright violations are two very different ballparks, but this fact does not nullify the value of one topic next to the other. This (copyrights) is a very important issue, and people should not blindly follow the leader here. This is not an issue that is only black and white. There are many shades of gray that are all going to the copyright holders because they have the money and the lawyers and all the time in the world to copyright every word we speak in the end.
I'm from America myself and our forefathers promoted speaking against your government. They told us that the price for freedom was eternal vigilance. They abhored the idea of a centralized government and the now common notion that the government should provide for it's people. If we mindlessly "obey the letter of the law" as you put it, without asking any questions, then we are just condoning our own slavery and admitting our dependence to them, and we then diserve no better.
I am an artist as well. True artists are not in it for the money. Most of them have other jobs or they starve. A great majority of artists sadly never even get noticed until after they are dead, if ever. True artists don't sell their souls so they can make a million dollars when their song is the theme for a new sports car. There isn't a thing that I would create in the world that I wouldn't want somebody else to have the ability to recreate and make better themselves. Copyrights limit our ability to evolve on an artistic and intellectual level as a species which, when you really think about it, is a very good thing if you're planning to go to war with every country in the world and you want your people mindlessly "obeying the letter of the law" and not questioning why.
Respectfully,
Mark
OK, why are we bringing up Nazi's? Thats really insulting. Someone prefers to live within the law and you call them a Nazi? And you took issue with what Kaneman said? Telling someone they are a Nazi is beyond the pale. Even attempting in any manner to equate 11th Hour and others being hit up for licensing fees and the Holocaust is just plain reprehensible. Bad form 6string.
As for our founding fathers abhorring "the idea of a centralized government and the now common notion that the government should provide for it's people" WHAT? What are you taking about?
The issue is this. Browncoats made their own unlicensed product and sold them. Others of us purchased them. Everything was hunky dory until the powers that be realized they were losing money. They sought to stop it. As is their right. Does it suck for 11th Hour and the others? Yes. But they knew the risks and they took them. Don't do the crime if you can't pay the time. Simple as that.
Copyrights do not limit our ability to evolve on an artistic or intellectual level. Copyrights stop us from taking the ideas of others and passing them off as our own. If you have to steal from someone else then you don't have a whole lot of creative talent. And that is (you) in the general not specific.
edited because I am tired and cant seem to spell gud.
----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
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It's so ironical it's sad, I agree. Really shows how predictable suits are.
But then again, I've always held severl truths close to my heart, amongst them being a Buddhist saying, "the cause of all suffering is ignorance," and another being mine, "the cause of all ignorance is beauocracy." So by extention beauocracy is suffering incarnate.
What we are really dealing with is that most inhuman monster, "policy." I doubt that Universal wants to diliberately stamp out a potential fanbase and money making venture, but what they've inadvertantly done is snuffed it out with piles of red tape. Their beauocrats (or Vogons as I call them), with their unimaginative minds and florecant bleached hands, have casually decided to kill our websites, custom t-shirts and other goodies by enstating an amendment to a policy that was written years ago that no longer applies to anything but nobody can remember why it was put there and it'd be too bothersome to remove it. Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork! That's who our real enemy is.
We must cut through the red tape and talk to those who are really in charge, and not in any legal jargon language. We must find a way around that stupid rule. The QMx guys can do it, so can we!
No, I am not insane, I am crazy. Thank you for asking.
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"BTW my friend.... Warhol's Campbell Soup silkscreens are going for an asking price of $15,000.00 at the artbrokerage.com now."
There's a sucker born every day...You go buy one. Shit, I'll paint you a Progresso soup can for..ah...er..$20,000. We can say it's my interpretation of pop culture's disgust with neo-cons.......
asshole.(Get it... Progresso = progressive thought[liberals]..ah..brillant!)
Wholly shit!!!! I think FutureMrsFillion agrees with me..Well, kinda...No,..really, really she does... Who da thunk it?
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
...I'm afraid most of it is aimed directly at protecting property for those rich enough to say it's theirs.
Well not really, Datsun/Nissan had more money.
Anyone who thinks the law has anything to do with Justice is a bloody loony.
Yer gorram correct . Recently , I went to court with a disabled person who needed the help , and the Judge ( I use that term in only the most liberal and colloquial sense ) actually had the gall to say , " This ain't about what's fair or right , it's about what's LEGAL ." And this idjit is up for re-election in November . Well , maybe they should be re-elected for telling the TRUTH , even if the principles are WRONG .
But , even more galling , I looked up the Rules of Civil Procedure in this State , which turned out to be a revelation . Apparently , when it's a civil lawsuit , you are in a " commercial " court . And guess who made all the " Rules " for this commercial court ? Of course , a committee of lawyers from the state Bar association .
Sick , sick , sick...
Still Flyin' !
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MINK: Thank you for your input as an attorney. I believe that you are right. If the 11th hour had the money to pay for the long, drawn out legal battle... at least enough to make it not worth Universal's time, they would most likely be able to fend off this attack. I've known plenty of lawyers, and on my social and financial rung, they're not worth the money you pay them. I think it's obvious that I don't have a whole lot of respect for law or government in general, but I do recognize that there are many individuals who make up the system and that even though I believe we're on different sides, they aren't bad people based solely on their chosen profession. I also realize that there are politicians, lawyers, law enforcement and people who join the armed services who do so with noble intentions. I hope to hear more from you on this topic in the future.
FUTUREMRSFILLION: Ah, yes... the dangers of brining up Nazism in any debate. Such a touchy subject for most that the entire point of the argument can so easily be lost, misquoted, or misdirected.
As I have said before, I do not believe that I used that example in a careless or unscrupulous manner. I am not an anarchist. I believe there are many laws which have been created which are of great benefit to society. That being said, it would be foolish for I, or anyone else for that matter, to believe that every single law that has ever been created was established with the sole intention of protecting and benefiting mankind as a whole. The fact is, it's the rich that make the laws the poor must abide by. To infer from my writing that I believe that anybody who obeys a law is a Nazi is complete hogwash and I implore you to read what I have written again with a receptive mind and truly see where I was making the parallel.
I would not be foolish enough to bring up Nazism in a debate about the validity and necessity of copyright, if that is all we were discussing in itself. If this were the case, then you and DAMIENWOLFE would be well within your rights to label me a lunatic or accuse me of bad form. I would do the same for anyone else who would carelessly toss around the holocaust as if the holocaust happened only for the benefit of simpletons who cannot prove their point in any other matter.
It is a long thread and I will concede that it may have been easy to miss where this was truly directed, so I will take the time to explain my train of thought here:
SUZFROMOZ originally posted: I personally wouldn’t buy any of these unnocifical fan products because they are in breach of copyright. I see the attraction, and I appreciate the skill, creativity etc in the original designs (although Ive seen a lot that were using specific logos etc from the movie) but to me its similar to pirated movies and music - I refuse to even watch them, never mind downloading them. I think what's happening is a risk people took when they first started going down the road of selling fan products. I'm just a stickler for the rules I guess......
Im sorry if browncoats are having trouble over this though.....
OK... you probably agree with all of what SUZFROMOZ said so far. I don't buy into that particular train of thought, however, so I responded: Again I feel that while everyone is entitled to their point of view, I feel that you are another that regurgitates the indoctrination of the RIAA and MPAA. I know that there is almost zero chance of changing your mind at this point, but I applaud you as well for being able to speak your piece of mind without resorting to troll like behavior.
Whether or not you agree with me up to this point (and I'm assuming you don't) is irrelevant here regarding my use of Nazism... please read on. This next post embodied a very scary sentiment to me, which I feel many people are starting to echo today, in America and abroad. Here is SUZFROMOZ's reply: hmm, intersting. I am not indoctrinated by anyone - I dont even know who RIAA and MPAA are and I dont live in the US (hence the name). What I am,
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A little aside here to EMBERS, if you read this thread. I was just acquainting myself with the 11th Hour thread. I must admit that I haven't kept up with that thread as much as I could have.... shame on me. I noticed a troll was arguing the use of Andy Warhol as an example in that thread as well and I thought somebody was using my example of his work there too... Well it turns out that EMBERS had brought up Andy Warhol's work on the 24th, so I have to give EMBERS props for getting to that point well before I did. I didn't chomp that off you EMBERS (Don't sue me... lol). I was actually a little embarassed to see that I had brought that up after you covered it 5 days before.
I'm too modest to say something like "Great minds think alike"... so I'll just think it to myself instead.
I noticed there are other interesting posts on this board right around the time I was making my last post and afterwards. I will comment on these as I get the chance to.
Keep Flyin',
Mark "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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