I will not wear Firefly as if it were a Nike symbol on my chest.
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 22:15
VIEWED: 12867
PAGE 3 of 7
SUZFROMOZ: Again I feel that while everyone is entitled to their point of view, I feel that you are another that regurgitates the indoctrination of the RIAA and MPAA. I know that there is almost zero chance of changing your mind at this point, but I applaud you as well for being able to speak your piece of mind without resorting to troll like behavior.
hmm, intersting. I am not indoctrinated by anyone - I dont even know who RIAA and MPAA are and I dont live in the US (hence the name). What I am, is someone who believes in obeying the letter of the law, even if you disagree with it. If you dont like a law, try and change it, dont break it. And as an artist also, I have a vested interest in the notion of intellectual property.
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There were others who obeyed the letter of the law.... Those were the Germans who followed the Nazis in WWII, when in their hearts they knew what they were doing and what was being done was wrong. They did this out of fear and because they had no power.
I realize that the Holocaust and copyright violations are two very different ballparks, but this fact does not nullify the value of one topic next to the other. This (copyrights) is a very important issue, and people should not blindly follow the leader here. This is not an issue that is only black and white. There are many shades of gray that are all going to the copyright holders because they have the money and the lawyers and all the time in the world to copyright every word we speak in the end.
I'm from America myself and our forefathers promoted speaking against your government. They told us that the price for freedom was eternal vigilance. They abhored the idea of a centralized government and the now common notion that the government should provide for it's people. If we mindlessly "obey the letter of the law" as you put it, without asking any questions, then we are just condoning our own slavery and admitting our dependence to them, and we then diserve no better.
I am an artist as well. True artists are not in it for the money. Most of them have other jobs or they starve. A great majority of artists sadly never even get noticed until after they are dead, if ever. True artists don't sell their souls so they can make a million dollars when their song is the theme for a new sports car. There isn't a thing that I would create in the world that I wouldn't want somebody else to have the ability to recreate and make better themselves. Copyrights limit our ability to evolve on an artistic and intellectual level as a species which, when you really think about it, is a very good thing if you're planning to go to war with every country in the world and you want your people mindlessly "obeying the letter of the law" and not questioning why.
Respectfully,
Mark
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Diclaimer: I apologize if my point gets lost in the mire of words, or if I make almost no sense. It's late, I'm tired, and I'm occupied (not that I'm making excuses or anything 
).
Copyrights are a sticky subject. On the one hand, I can understand saying, "You can't use this, this, and this, because they're ours" - but, at a certain part, I also believe it should become private property, so long as there's no profit made from them (fanvids, for example). As far as fan-made sketches and lanyards - those should be the property of their creator. If they didn't take music or art specifically from the show (notice I leave out lines from the show, because, as long as entire blocks or the script is re-produced and sold, I think it's legitimate) - say, they created a Firefly logo inspired by the show, but it was more than just altering the original; or, if they did a sketch of a character, just something random based on the way they looked overall, and added some other stuff - they should have the right to make a profit from it. Heck, sometimes it's harder to create from something, because of the constraints of working with the style and look.
Having said all that (not too well), I think the actions brought against 11th hour were extreme. They weren't entirely unwarranted, but I feel that it should have been a little less abrupt and harsh. Certainly I think they should allow her to keep the guerilla marketing posters up, and (from what I've seen) all of her Cafe Press. And, really, there's only the one banner with the ship and all the faces that people should find questionable, anyway (in my opinion).
Maybe Universal is just peeved that she doesn't mention the movie specifically, or present a link to buy them (she mentions iTunes and the Firefly DVDs, anyway).
And, from what I've seen from Joss and Co., and here on the boards, I'm with the gang that sees a disconnect between Universal's suits and those who made the movie possible.
It's everyone's right to boycott things they don't like (because maybe buying official products could convince them that, somehow, people support their decisions to axe the little guys). Hell, you'll never see me shopping at Wal-Mart (
) - if it's all the same, I'd rather be homeless.
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"What the world needs now is love, sweet love - it's the only thing that there's just too little of. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. No, not just for some, but for everyone."
http://richlabonte.net/tvvote
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Sweetheart, I think you're being a little... extreme. Saying people aren't "real this" or "real that" because they don't agree with your opinion is ludicrous.
Laws designed to protect inventors, artists, writers, etc. can't be selectively applied depending on (1) how big the corporation is and how much money they already have, and (2) how much you really like something.
Enforcement shouldn't be based on preference... "Well, gosh, we really like those Firefly fans, so we'll let them get away with copyright infringment, but those Miami Vice fans are dicks, so we're gonna screw 'em for every cent they got!"
I think it's important to remember that Universal is a huge corporation, and the Legal Arm of that corporation is there simply to watch over the legal aspects. That doesn't mean that the entirety of Universal is bad. Hell, even my (little) company has lawyers that do things that I'm completely against, but that's business.
I think if you removed all of Kaneman's bullshit insults, he's pretty much right. Copying other people's artwork or basing your own artwork on theirs (derivative) doesn't make you more creative, and having creator protection doesn't inherently limit the creative potential of others; if it does, then those others really aren't all that creative, now are they? (And I should note: I am by no means saying 11th Hour's art is uncreative derivative work.)
Also? Has anyone stopped to consider that, when setting up all the movie contracts and whatnot, that Joss, as intelligent as he is, didn't maybe get a piece of the merchandizing pie? And maybe, just maybe, if he did, this legal arm of Universal is also protecting his rights? Just a thought.
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Not captioned for the sarcasm impaired.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013
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In accordance with Godwin's Law, you lose. Bringing up Nazi's in a debate is just a sign of poor skills.
Seriously though, what's wrong with the idea of licensed merchandise? I'd much rather have my money go to Universal and Fox than Joe Browncoat. No offense to makers of unlicensed merchandise, but giving them money will certainly not help bring about more official things. We will only get more things if the companies see the property as viable. That said, I have bought a few unlicensed things as I thought they were interesting enough.
Yes, it sucks that the free tabs are no longer available, but we don't need the Blue Sun Shirts website when there are officially licensed Blue Sun t-shirts. I thought the unlicensed stuff was around just to fill the void that the official merchandise left open?
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I have to say i'm not getting the particulars of this case - in theory I agree with copyright, but the actions of universals lawyers seem to completely ott and out of line, and ultimetly futile - akin to companies suing ten year old for thousands (well, i get 5 dollars a week allowance, i'd have you paid back by the time the sun dies) The amounts of money quoted would instantly bankrupt the people and take away everything.
Their actions were completely wrong, the c&d orders were more than sufficiant, and I wish them luck in fighting their cause.
But ulimetly how can they hope to fight? This is where the evil of large corporations is revealed, not that they shouldn't have the right to copyright the products of their clients, but that they should have their powers to persecute people capped to within reaonable limits.
And Mark is right, the power to challenge your government is a fundamental human right - one that should be exercised at every possible turn.(theres a quote floating through my head, something about 'a people should not be afraid of their government - a governmment should be afraid of the people' they exist to follow the wishes of the majority)
And in some ideal world with green fields and fluffy bunnies we would have a reliable honest and scrupulous goverment, laws that were applicable to all circumstances and lawyers and corporations that were geared to work for the moral right and the betterment of their consumers and not just the bank accounts of their shareholders.
Basically, what i think i'm waffling about is that life is shit and accepting and blithely following the shitness only validates it and makes it worse, to the point where it becomes impossible for the small person to make any difference. I'm not advocating wanton law breaking. Well, maybe i am, but in a country where only celebrity chefs can get legislation put into place in less than a decade ( in the last two or three years Jamie Oliver has managed to get the government to make sure that all children are eating a vegetable for lunch - meanwhile thousands of older people will die of poverty and neglect before the measures that can save them will be put into effect in 2012)maybe protest, legal or not, is what is needed to let the government know that we will not be treated this way.
Simple line - if you silently follow you loose your right to lead.
I have no opinion of buying official merchandise or unofficial merchandise - its a good thing that people are inspired and find an outlet for their creativity, and I agree that unofficial merchandise can boost the sale of the official (the same way that downloading a few singles can induce you to buy the album on CD) and that the companies should realise the value of their fanbases and make use of them as opposed to persecuting and alienating them.
But we all know what lawyers are like dont we? especially when its about money.
But to reiterate my only two points in that big pile of words - what universals legal department are doing to small companies is reprehensible, and we have to exercise our rights and fight our causes by whatever means we deem necessary (wheather thats boycotting a company or becoming a social recluse)in order to get our society working for us instead of for money.
Because thats all it boils down to really.
Right, now, who's up for kidnapping George Bush and forcing him to live in a trailer home in New Orleans flood damaged slums (with Tony and Cherie for neighbours!) for a few weeks. He'd bloody do something to help his own impoverished citizens then.
Isn't sanity really a one trick pony, anyway?I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking! But when you're good and crazy...ooh hoo hoo hoo... the skys the limit!
http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt
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Ignore this post. I just have to go and want to mark this thread in my most recent post log so I can find it later and read the rest of it.
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Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
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While I disapprove of the way Universal is handling this particular case, I recognize their right to protect the interests of companies that have paid them fees for licensed merchandise. I trust that 11thHour will succeed in at least getting them to waive the retroactive fees they have specified. She still has non-logo, non-copyright infringing merchandise available on her site, and hopefully others will also work towards producing product that reflects their interest in the 'verse without utilizing copyrighted logos and other images.
I know there were people who advocated a boycott of FOX after Firefly's cancelation, but if I had gone along with that I would not have discovered Wonderfalls or The Inside, and since FOX produced the Firefly DVDS, a boycott would have entailed ignoring them as well. Boycotting Universal is not the way to go in this instance either, IMO. They are too large a corporation for that to make any kind of impact, and would also involve not watching any other program that is on one of their networks, such as Heroes, The 4400, The Dead Zone or Battlestar Galactica. I ain't gonna give those up.
Write them a polite note letting them know how much you love the 'verse, and that they should go easy on those who were only doing what they felt was their Browncoat duty in promoting the series and BDM. Don't write them a hate letter or tell them you won't buy any of their licensed merchandise, because that might cause them to not produce any.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
and would also involve not watching any other program that is on one of their networks, such as Heroes, The 4400, The Dead Zone or Battlestar Galactica. I ain't gonna give those up.
You watch them on TV?
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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
and would also involve not watching any other program that is on one of their networks, such as Heroes, The 4400, The Dead Zone or Battlestar Galactica. I ain't gonna give those up.
You watch them on TV?
If you are implying they are not worth watching, I won't enter that debate with you. Everyone has their own taste. If instead you are infering I should watch them in another way, such as downloading or streaming video, I again will not argue my case, but just say that I'd rather not tie up computer time that way.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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