Torture Smorture
POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Saturday, November 4, 2006 05:15
VIEWED: 2657
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I can not take another politician or liberal throwing around the word torture. It is intended to solicit an emotional response as opposed to an intellectual one. Any truthful person would agree that the rack, maiden, or cutting off fingers is torture. They would also agree that playing loud music, sleep deprivation, not allowing the Karon, or dunking someones head in water is not. They maybe aggressive interrogation techniques, but they certainly are not torture. Am I wrong on this? What is torture? My guess is everyone will have a different definition.
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If I hold your head under water until you were at the point of drowning... I'd keep it there. 
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
They would also agree that playing loud music, sleep deprivation, not allowing the Karon, or dunking someones head in water is not.
I would mostly agree with this statement. However, when multiple methods of actions that in themselves are not tortured and use to systimatically wear down the resistance and, in effect, degrade the individual in the eye's of others, IS torture.
Examples: A teenager playing loud music to annoy his parents is obviously not torture (although the parents might say so). Depriving military personnel of sleep during training is not torture (it is preparing them for combat situations).
But once you continually deprive someone of sleep, play loud music, and constantly dunk their head in water it then becomes torture because it is systimatically wearing someone down with the purpose to degrade them.
Disclaimer: the military example can be on the fence. Technically, you could say some of the things done are torture (deprivation of sleep, loud sounds: artillery, grandes, etc., crawling through the mud) however it is reasonable because it is preparing them for their job. Same as how Firefighters cannot claim that entering a burning building is hazardous, obviously it is but that's their job.
I hope this isn't too vague, but that's my opinion (obviously).
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Quote:Well experiencing is knowing, so lets you and me meet up and I'll do all those things to you and then we can discuss what you think they are afterwards.
Originally posted by kaneman:
I can not take another politician or liberal throwing around the word torture. It is intended to solicit an emotional response as opposed to an intellectual one. Any truthful person would agree that the rack, maiden, or cutting off fingers is torture. They would also agree that playing loud music, sleep deprivation, not allowing the Karon, or dunking someones head in water is not. They maybe aggressive interrogation techniques, but they certainly are not torture. Am I wrong on this? What is torture? My guess is everyone will have a different definition.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
http://www.phrusa.org/research/torture/news_2006-09-26.html
Quote:
1. Water Boarding is when a prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. This tactic simulates drowning. Water boarding creates the sensation of imminent death by drowning. Survivors of death threats suffer high rates of post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. Despite the "simulated" drowning, hypoxia can and probably does occur. At the same time, a dramatic physiologic stress response, with tachycardia, hyperventilation and labored breathing is almost unavoidable. The combined psychiatric and physiologic stress resulting from this technique could induce cardiac ischemia and other cardiac issues in vulnerable individuals, and even brief hypoxia can cause neurological damage.
2. Prolonged Sleep Deprivation results in a number of deleterious psychological effects, most prominent among them being cognitive impairment. Cognitive impairments include memory, learning, logical reasoning, complex verbal processing, and decision-making. Sleep restriction can also result in hypertension, cardiovascular disease, a decrease in immune function, altered glucose tolerance and insulin resistance.
3. The cold cell/induced hypothermia (dangerously low body temperature): The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water. Hypothermia can cause reduced psychological function and mental capacity; loss of muscle function, harm to the cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, respiratory, and nervous, systems; and even death.
4. Shaking: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him. Shaking a prisoner has been outlawed by Israel's Supreme Court. Shaking can result in trauma to the brain through an acceleration-deceleration mechanism. Consequences may include intracranial hemorrhage, potentially leading to increased intracranial pressure and herniation, a potentially fatal complication. Some brain trauma from shaking can potentially result in more subtle but clinically significant cognitive impairment.
5. Striking/slapping: While a slap diffuses the force a blow over a greater area than a closed-fist punch, a slap nevertheless causes blunt force trauma. Depending on where applied to the body, the resulting injury can be significant. Slaps delivered to vulnerable areas of the face including nose, eyes or mouth can result in soft tissue injury, bruising and laceration. Facial bones may also be fractured. A slap to the face also creates a torsion force that may result in neck injury. A slap to the abdomen can cause soft tissue injury, and even rib fracture. Internal organ damage includes such serious injuries as the rupture of the spleen.
6. Prolonged standing: According to media reports, prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Prolonged standing is associated with venous thrombotic phenomenon such as deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism. Thrombo-embolic sequelae can be both acute and chronic. In addition, prolonged standing carries the risk of fainting, which can result in significant blunt force trauma including head injury, fractures and other soft tissue injury.
7. Threats of harm and mock execution: These tactics, like water-boarding, are based on threats of death or severe harm. Mock execution and other threats of harm to the subject, or to the subject's family and loved ones, have been clinically found to cause the highest rates of depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder and personality change.
---
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love - it's the only thing tha
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
If I hold your head under water until you were at the point of drowning... I'd keep it there.
OMG, a sense of humor from your clenched ass...Wow, times a changin.
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
http://www.phrusa.org/research/torture/news_2006-09-26.html
Quote:
1. Water Boarding is when a prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. This tactic simulates drowning. Water boarding creates the sensation of imminent death by drowning. Survivors of death threats suffer high rates of post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. Despite the "simulated" drowning, hypoxia can and probably does occur. At the same time, a dramatic physiologic stress response, with tachycardia, hyperventilation and labored breathing is almost unavoidable. The combined psychiatric and physiologic stress resulting from this technique could induce cardiac ischemia and other cardiac issues in vulnerable individuals, and even brief hypoxia can cause neurological damage.
2. Prolonged Sleep Deprivation results in a number of deleterious psychological effects, most prominent among them being cognitive impairment. Cognitive impairments include memory, learning, logical reasoning, complex verbal processing, and decision-making. Sleep restriction can also result in hypertension, cardiovascular disease, a decrease in immune function, altered glucose tolerance and insulin resistance.
3. The cold cell/induced hypothermia (dangerously low body temperature): The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water. Hypothermia can cause reduced psychological function and mental capacity; loss of muscle function, harm to the cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, respiratory, and nervous, systems; and even death.
4. Shaking: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him. Shaking a prisoner has been outlawed by Israel's Supreme Court. Shaking can result in trauma to the brain through an acceleration-deceleration mechanism. Consequences may include intracranial hemorrhage, potentially leading to increased intracranial pressure and herniation, a potentially fatal complication. Some brain trauma from shaking can potentially result in more subtle but clinically significant cognitive impairment.
5. Striking/slapping: While a slap diffuses the force a blow over a greater area than a closed-fist punch, a slap nevertheless causes blunt force trauma. Depending on where applied to the body, the resulting injury can be significant. Slaps delivered to vulnerable areas of the face including nose, eyes or mouth can result in soft tissue injury, bruising and laceration. Facial bones may also be fractured. A slap to the face also creates a torsion force that may result in neck injury. A slap to the abdomen can cause soft tissue injury, and even rib fracture. Internal organ damage includes such serious injuries as the rupture of the spleen.
6. Prolonged standing: According to media reports, prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Prolonged standing is associated with venous thrombotic phenomenon such as deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism. Thrombo-embolic sequelae can be both acute and chronic. In addition, prolonged standing carries the risk of fainting, which can result in significant blunt force trauma including head injury, fractures and other soft tissue injury.
7. Threats of harm and mock execution: These tactics, like water-boarding, are based on threats of death or severe harm. Mock execution and other threats of harm to the subject, or to the subject's family and loved ones, have been clinically found to cause the highest rates of depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder and personality change.
---
"What the world needs now is l
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Well experiencing is knowing, so lets you and me meet up and I'll do all those things to you and then we can discuss what you think they are afterwards.
Originally posted by kaneman:
I can not take another politician or liberal throwing around the word torture. It is intended to solicit an emotional response as opposed to an intellectual one. Any truthful person would agree that the rack, maiden, or cutting off fingers is torture. They would also agree that playing loud music, sleep deprivation, not allowing the Karon, or dunking someones head in water is not. They maybe aggressive interrogation techniques, but they certainly are not torture. Am I wrong on this? What is torture? My guess is everyone will have a different definition.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
No thanks citz, really loud Liza Minelli would surely cause me harm. That is what you fags listen to, right?
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personally, I was raised on 2 principles:
1> Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
and:
2> All a soldier is required to give, and all you are allowed to ask, is name, rank, and serial number.
While that may not be how American POWs are treated always, what have we actually gained thru harsh interrogation that justifies putting all future American GI's at risk?
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