Angel Raped Buffy, Spike only tried

POSTED BY: FURYFIRE
UPDATED: Saturday, July 24, 2004 20:07
VIEWED: 35067
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LITWOLF689

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 11:47 AM

Well, Angel did not force Buffy to sleep with him. In fact, he kinda tried to stop her because he started to hesitate but Buffy said 'No just kiss me.' See Buffy encouraged him. So its not rape.

Spike on the other hand, when he was in the bathroom with Buffy, he pushed her to the floor, ripped her clothes off, and also started to hit her a little. And this was all against her will. So thats rape... or at least attempted rape.

Spike was closer to raping Buffy than Angel was.

^-^

Litwolf689

DASBRICK

Friday, February 6, 2004 3:00 PM

arg. forgive me if this has been done before. I will be using the Michigan Law system, since when I watched this episode witha friend at Cooley Law School in Lansing, he mentioned that it was rape.

I found this link to clarify it up basicly: http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/rapedefined.htm

If she is under 18, there is no aguement weather it was rape or not. IT WAS.

Rick Hallman
Das-Brick.org

DASBRICK

Friday, February 6, 2004 3:01 PM

Rick Hallman
Das-Brick.org

JASONZZZ

Friday, February 6, 2004 4:42 PM

Agreed.

Although the discussion still fell into a couple of categories:

- not sure if the law applies
- the law isn't morally correct, it should be nullified by jury if charges are brought
- not sure what the law is

Quote:
Originally posted by DasBrick:
arg. forgive me if this has been done before. I will be using the Michigan Law system, since when I watched this episode witha friend at Cooley Law School in Lansing, he mentioned that it was rape.

I found this link to clarify it up basicly: http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/rapedefined.htm

If she is under 18, there is no aguement weather it was rape or not. IT WAS.

Rick Hallman
Das-Brick.org

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SUCCATASH

Friday, February 6, 2004 6:44 PM

I just saw this episode last night on FX. A good ep, and that bathroom scene is really creepy.

TSOULZ

Friday, February 6, 2004 11:47 PM

This topic sickens me to no end. And on more than just a Buffy/Angel/Spike level. Why even discuss the legality of actions taken by characters in a television show? Because if it is, I'm not so proud to say I'm a fan of Buffy or Angel anymore, considering the company I keep. The show's about morality and redemption, not legality. Rape isn't a word to be tossed around, for whatever reason. According to most your standards, my wife (of which is five years older than me) is a rapist, since I was unable to "consent" when we became intimate. I shudder at the thought and immediately condemn those that think so as sorry excuses for human beings. When forceful, rape is rape; a disgusting display of power within agression. But if both parties consent to the act, regardless of the age, it IS NOT rape. Their should be another, less abrasive term for it, if it requires legal scrutiny. Rape, as it was defined above, is an act of force. Adding "statuatory" as a prefix doesn't change the word itself, but reacclimates it to a primitive society still bent on the assumption of power.

Not to mention, I seriously doubt Joss' intention with those episodes was to evoke this kind of topic. And on that, Buffy loved Angel in Surprise, hence their intimacy. Age should not make a differene. Buffy and Spike were still on a hate-hate kind of downward spiral; there was no love there, in any way, shape or form. And Buffy didn't consent. I don't care if Spike was slow or stupid on that time's "no meant no" ideal, it was still attempted rape. Plain and simple.

Call me irritable on this topic as I regard it as a very very stupid one.

LITWOLF689

Saturday, February 7, 2004 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DasBrick:

If she is under 18, there is no aguement weather it was rape or not. IT WAS.

Rick Hallman
Das-Brick.org

I guess your right. So, from a legal point, Angel did rape her, but to Angel and Buffy, it was not rape because they both wanted it.

The other times when Buffy went to Spike to have sex with him willingly would not be rape. Only the one time in the bathroom would be at least attempted rape. But, how old was Buffy when she started to have sex with Spike?

Darn, I always hated Spike because I thought he had raped Buffy that one time but now see that legally (sp?) Angel also raped Buffy.

...well, I still really dont like Spike.

^-^

LITWOLF689

Saturday, February 7, 2004 10:22 AM

Sorry it printed twice

LINDEN

Saturday, February 7, 2004 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tsoulz:
This topic sickens me to no end. And on more than just a Buffy/Angel/Spike level. Why even discuss the legality of actions taken by characters in a television show? Because if it is, I'm not so proud to say I'm a fan of Buffy or Angel anymore, considering the company I keep. The show's about morality and redemption, not legality. Rape isn't a word to be tossed around, for whatever reason. According to most your standards, my wife (of which is five years older than me) is a rapist, since I was unable to "consent" when we became intimate. I shudder at the thought and immediately condemn those that think so as sorry excuses for human beings. When forceful, rape is rape; a disgusting display of power within agression. But if both parties consent to the act, regardless of the age, it IS NOT rape. Their should be another, less abrasive term for it, if it requires legal scrutiny. Rape, as it was defined above, is an act of force. Adding "statuatory" as a prefix doesn't change the word itself, but reacclimates it to a primitive society still bent on the assumption of power.

Not to mention, I seriously doubt Joss' intention with those episodes was to evoke this kind of topic. And on that, Buffy loved Angel in Surprise, hence their intimacy. Age should not make a differene. Buffy and Spike were still on a hate-hate kind of downward spiral; there was no love there, in any way, shape or form. And Buffy didn't consent. I don't care if Spike was slow or stupid on that time's "no meant no" ideal, it was still attempted rape. Plain and simple.

Call me irritable on this topic as I regard it as a very very stupid one.

Thank you, TSOULZ. I couldn´t agree more.

JASONZZZ

Saturday, February 7, 2004 6:40 PM

That's exactly it. Morals are fine if we can all agree (pre-agree) on a set of terms that we can all live with. But we have demonstrate here in our little slice of the world that we can't. That's why there are laws. And especially in Americas anyway, the laws are made by the people or their representatives. That means it's a quasi agreement (sometimes at best) on why we do, sometimes it's about morality - what we consider moral. It's not a law handed down to us from a Monarch or some higher being. We've defined it.

It's fine if we don't call it rape. The problem is, when an adult takes advantage of a child (what is defined as statutory rape), it is just as violent of an act - from a societal point of view. In fact, I would call it even more incidious, simply because the person is defined to be incapable of making a right and wrong judgement. So now, we have defined the act - that is, someone acting in a predatory role taking advantage of another who is not capable of making a judgement to give consent. Well, where do we draw the line? We can all agree that it's not the same line everywhere, and so far, it's not, each state has it's own definition. In Hawaii and New Mexico, it was the age of 14 for the longest part of the last century. It's not down to a local level, but at least it's fairly locally defined, at least we have a choice to say what it is.

I agree with you - *Rape* is a forceful and violent act and shouldn't be a word to be tossed around. People believe that the act of subjugating a minor into a sex act is that very same type of incidious violence.

Quote:
Originally posted by tsoulz:
This topic sickens me to no end. And on more than just a Buffy/Angel/Spike level. Why even discuss the legality of actions taken by characters in a television show? Because if it is, I'm not so proud to say I'm a fan of Buffy or Angel anymore, considering the company I keep. The show's about morality and redemption, not legality. Rape isn't a word to be tossed around, for whatever reason. According to most your standards, my wife (of which is five years older than me) is a rapist, since I was unable to "consent" when we became intimate. I shudder at the thought and immediately condemn those that think so as sorry excuses for human beings. When forceful, rape is rape; a disgusting display of power within agression. But if both parties consent to the act, regardless of the age, it IS NOT rape. Their should be another, less abrasive term for it, if it requires legal scrutiny. Rape, as it was defined above, is an act of force. Adding "statuatory" as a prefix doesn't change the word itself, but reacclimates it to a primitive society still bent on the assumption of power.

Not to mention, I seriously doubt Joss' intention with those episodes was to evoke this kind of topic. And on that, Buffy loved Angel in Surprise, hence their intimacy. Age should not make a differene. Buffy and Spike were still on a hate-hate kind of downward spiral; there was no love there, in any way, shape or form. And Buffy didn't consent. I don't care if Spike was slow or stupid on that time's "no meant no" ideal, it was still attempted rape. Plain and simple.

Call me irritable on this topic as I regard it as a very very stupid one.

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