Why is Mal anti-companion?
POSTED BY: akredhead
UPDATED: Thursday, December 28, 2006 01:27
VIEWED: 17411
PAGE 8 of 9
I was thinkin it was cause he just didnt want inara to be a companion
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I don't think he is anti-companion i just think he has his own issues on getting close to anybody and having a companion. he can't have inara. "other than myself nobody's touched my plow for a long time"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
It's hard to be sure. We haven't seen Mal meet other Companions - WE haven't met other Companions.
We also haven't seen Mal have an honest and earnest discussion about his opinions with anyone neutral.
What we know is:
1) Mal has no problem with prostitution in general, or he would be chewing out Jayne on a regular basis and would have said something to Nandi.
2) Mal states that he dislikes the "dishonesty" of pretending affection for money. ***(1)***
However, if he wasn't biased, a business-savvy mind like his should be able to appreciate a women doing what the hell ever she wants and making good money with it. Companioning doesn't harm anyone. Unlike thieving. Or killing. And I think Mal knows that. *** (2) ***
So, personally, I think Mal doesn't actually have a problem with Companions, at all. They are educated professionals, and while they are a part of the society he hates, so was Warrick Harrow, and Mal had no problem with him. Conversely, he did keep pushing down Simon for simply having been rich, even though he was a trauma surgeon, a highly respectable job that even now benefits Mal immensely. It's the being rich that Mal detests in general. *** (3) ***
Inara's job is a convenient target for Mal's sarcasm (that contradiction as he sees it, of a "whore" being respected by one name when they aren't by another) and it becomes a conveninient way to lash out at Inara when they grow closer, because... that's when her job and the connected sexual and status issues start becoming a problem.
1) That sounds like a comment any man who has been hurt or lied to by a woman and was honest enough to menton it would say. I think many people have mentioned that Mal has intimacy issues due to his desire to not be hurt. If you were afraid of loving a woman because you know you you are truly capable of being hurt, you would really hate any woman feigning affection- it owuld remind you too much of how you were lied to. I know LOTS of guys who have been cheated on, betrayed, lied to, had sex with prostitutes, random women, had their wives/girlfriends cheat on them with MULTIPLE men, etc...ahhh, being in the Military...quite the well-rounded experience. We had about a 90% divorce rate when the unit came home after Fallujah. This last time out to Iraq, I wrote all of my platoon-mates names and their girlfriends/wives down on a list with a buddy of mine, and by the end of the deployment, their were only five of the original twenty-seven couples still together.
2) Anyone who doesn't think prostitution doesn't hurt anyone has never been a prostitute, or like in my case, worked with them. Name two happy prostitutes that you have personally met and spent time with. Anyone?
I'm not going to attach a moral connection to the practice of prostitution, but I do thinkn it's an interesting coincidence.
Heck, look at how much trouble Inara's work causes in the show-
"Serenity"- the line by her first client at the end of their time together. Bitter, right? Stupid man for falling for a beautiful woman that acted like she cared about him. Honestly, we men are far too gullible about women. His best course of action would have been to treat her as a "fun object" and appreciated the fake consideration, or to have a complete emotional disconnect between physical intimacy and emotion, then he wouldn't have been bitter about their seperation, right? But, if men had that kind of seperation of intimacy and emotions, how would any of us ever learn to feel remorse about cheating? Or breaking up with a girl because you found someone prettier to lust after? Most of the guys I hang out with that make use of prostitutes have a hard time staying faithful to their girlfriends, or of becoming emotionally connected to women at all. I know that a lot of women see their power over men sexually as a form of liberation and empowerment, but I fear for our society if we reach a point where men are encouraged to forget
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
Now I know I'm biased cause I'm something of a feminist my self, but then again, so's Joss, so that's my theory.
Mal believes (as evidenced by his acceptance of Kaylee in OoG, his treatmeant of Saffron before she was YoSafBridge, etc) that women are the equal of men
But what I find a little short-sighted in Mal's suppossed "feminism" that he refuses to aknowledge that this is a mutually agreed-upon illusion. Everyone, as he says, knows it - and is getting along with it. The client, as well. No one is actually being lied to. It's a clear and obvious service.
And always, always, always, it's just another way of oppression for Mal to stand there and basically dictate to Inara how she should live her live in order to be "respectable" to him. He doesn't accept her personal choices, her perception of her job. It's what he thinks she should do that counts to him.
Which is not exactly feminist.
But, of course, that's probably just an aspect of Mal attacking her job for standing between them, rather than out of principle.
I honestly have never once thought of Mal as being a feminist. He simply treats people with respect.
If Mal was a true feminist, he would distrust women at least as much as he does men, and hold them as accountable.
He favors River more than anyone in his situation who cared about his crew's safety should, he doesn't treat Zoe as an "Equal" so much as a trusted suborinate whose opinion is respected (Zoe's opinion or contrary idea of what course of action they should take NEVER overrides Mal's desire once in the series.
She's his second-in-command, period.
Kaylee and Inara don't get even half a vote in what goes on, and Mal lets YoSafBridge put him and his crew in jeopardy twice due to his underestimation of her. Thank goodness she failed to kill them the first time, and the second time tampered with their steering and not their life support, huh?
Maybe I don't quite know what a feminist is: I'll go look it up.
"...let's not ruin an otherwise pleasant day with unnecessary bloodshed..."
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Question(s):
1) Where is it proven that Inara even chose her profession? Maybe her parents threw her into the academy like River got sent to one. Do prostitutes really choose their profession? Do people who pump gas? I think many people work jobs that if you asked them if why they chose it, they would explain at length exactly how they didn't.
2) Why do we think that Inara doesn't feel any shame about her work? Find someone who hates their job (like some Marines, Accountants, Secretaries, etc...), then insult their profession and watch a dog-poo shoveler defend his proud and helpful occupational tradition. Maybe Inara simply validates it because it's what she does for a living. I know a couple of real "pros" that do this. they complain about their work, wouldn't want their daughter doing it, but they use their life circumstances to validate it, and their "right to provide" for themsleves to defend it. If you ask a successful doctor if he would change his profession if he could go back in time, would the answer be different if you asked Inara what she would do for a living if it could be anything?
3) Why is it that when Inara says Companions are different from W's because they 'choose' their clients people think that that statement means anything? Hookers in Hawaii charge between $160-$300 depending on the client, and can say 'no' to any John. That doesn't mean they know how to sword fight or perform a chinese tea ceremony.
4) What makes the difference between a companion's job and a W's? I'll bet there are some backwater types who went to the Heart of Gold for conversation, interaction, a shoulder to cry on, just to feel someone lying next to them. IMO there is no difference between a Companion and a "W", just a difference in their clients. Companions and W's do the same thing- what their client wants. i'll bet that a lot of Core-Worlders would have fallen HARD for a rim-world "Yolanda"(YoSafBridge's character) in a New York minute, fancy talk be DAMNED, if they could find one. Education is not the primary function of either Comps or W's. Their willingness to perform sex acts is. I doubt so much has changed in the future that anyone with the money to afford a RegCompanion couldn't find an urbane or attractive woman to ride his arm, but a client gets the nod when he walks in with a RegCompanion because the other guys there know that they are seeing a woman they KNOW will put out, and do it well, with generations of training knowledge and a genuine dedication to pleasing that a lot of woman don't have for whatever reason. Also, since RegComps aren't cheap, it's a status thing like when rich people buy expensive cars and their rich friends oogle them. They can all afford whatever they want, but for some reason an expensive performance plaything is always 'ooh' or 'aah' worthy to them. My fiancee's escalade and my Suzuki are both cars and do the same thing. And some people prefer trucks. It only matters to the client, the ride's individual differences mean a difference in price, not purpose.
5) If sex isn't the main point of a companion's work, then why are there no ugly or overweight ones? Seriously.
"...let's not ruin an otherwise pleasant day with unnecessary bloodshed..."
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Geez, Hellraiser, when are you gonna start telling us what you really think? And quit being so... terse? 
Good observations, though I confess I didn't read every line. And I can't really answer your challenge, as I haven't known or utilized any prostitutes (as far as I know), nor even any men who have done. Sheltered life, I guess.
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I'm pointin' right at it!
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Dude. I'd like to discuss this more thoroughly with you, but you don't really seem to be looking for a sharing of ideas. Just stating your opinion in... overwhelmingly great detail.
Quote:
Originally posted by USMCHellraiser:
Question(s):
1) Where is it proven that Inara even chose her profession? Maybe her parents threw her into the academy like River got sent to one. Do prostitutes really choose their profession? Do people who pump gas? I think many people work jobs that if you asked them if why they chose it, they would explain at length exactly how they didn't.
It's speculation, either way. But Inara always speaks of the Guild with a positive glint in her eyes, a half-smile, respect. (Except for the one wave she exchanges with Nandi.) She's an intelligent woman. Why would she do that if she had reason to feel oppressed?
For what it's worth, in the Firefly RPG book, I think, there was a bit stating that Companions don't learn the actual Companion techniques - if they want to - until after they've graduated the regular, general education training that so emphasizes control (and, apparently, Buddhism?) which implies an entirely voluntary wish to become a Companion.
Quote:
2) Why do we think that Inara doesn't feel any shame about her work? Find someone who hates their job (like some Marines, Accountants, Secretaries, etc...), then insult their profession and watch a dog-poo shoveler defend his proud and helpful occupational tradition. Maybe Inara simply validates it because it's what she does for a living. I know a couple of real "pros" that do this. they complain about their work, wouldn't want their daughter doing it, but they use their life circumstances to validate it, and their "right to provide" for themsleves to defend it. If you ask a successful doctor if he would change his profession if he could go back in time, would the answer be different if you asked Inara what she would do for a living if it could be anything?
And you point is.. what?
Many people don't love their jobs, but they're not ashamed of them, either. You can, if you're so inclined, presume that it's all a lie to cover up her true feelings. But that doesn't change that her behavior generally indications a lack of shame. Even a lack of dislike.
Inara, on the show, strongly identifies with her job. She values its traditions and the Guild Laws and is relaxed enough to joke about the sillier aspects.
Shame is something else.
Quote:
3) Why is it that when Inara says Companions are different from W's because they 'choose' their clients people think that that statement means anything? Hookers in Hawaii charge between $160-$300 depending on the client, and can say 'no' to any John. That doesn't mean they know how to sword fight or perform a chinese tea ceremony.
Does she say that they are different because of this one fact only? I don't think she does. She says that Companions choose their own clients. She says that Companions aren't whores. Seperate statements. Correlation, sure, but only facets of a whole.
Quote:
4) What makes the difference between a companion's job and a W's? I'll bet there are some backwater types who went to the Heart of Gold for conversation, interaction, a shoulder to cry on, just to feel someone lying next to them. IMO there is no difference between a Companion and a "W", just a difference in their clients.
It's your prerogative to have an opinion.
Quote:
5) If sex isn't the main point of a companion's work, then why are there no ugly or overweight ones? Seriously.
How do you know there aren't?
We have seen: Inara. Sheydra. Nandi. A small passel of pretty girls that Inara declared unfit to be Companions in the cut scene of the movie. Yes, they were all physically attractive. But who says that all Companions are ideal lookers? Maybe there are chubby ones. Maybe there are those who have plain faces. How can you know there are not?
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Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Geez, Hellraiser, when are you gonna start telling us what you really think? And quit being so... terse?
Good observations, though I confess I didn't read every line. And I can't really answer your challenge, as I haven't known or utilized any prostitutes (as far as I know), nor even any men who have done. Sheltered life, I guess.
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I'm pointin' right at it!
Well, I hope that my being direct isn't mistaken for anything but my desire to convey my thoughts here
i like the directness of my relationship with Marines, and ahve issues with the rues of subterfuge and conspiracy I sometimes see in the 'Civilized' world.
Please note though: if I ever ask a question, I realy mean it as a question, regardless of how blunt I ask it- I am happy to have found this family and home (the Browncoat community), and have no issues with anyone here's personal opinions/viewpoint: if it parallels mine or not.
also, for the record, I have never paid for sex in an open and direct businessy way, I just used to work with and socialize with them a lot. And, I'm in the Marine Corps Infantry.
"...let's not ruin an otherwise pleasant day with unnecessary bloodshed..."
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Lemme add some complexity to an already complex position. :)
For starters, I think Mal, though he's not too fond Alliance institutions in general, overall has no real problem with Companions. But he has an issue with Inara being one. He may have feelings for Inara, and obviously he does, but I think the friction here is primarily a matter of loyalties colliding. At least that's the aspect I wish to highlight here. Allow me to explain.
Mal loves his freedom; never to be under the heel of anyone ever again. Inara, with a twist, has chosen an opposite life: in Mal's eyes, she chooses slavery:
Mal: "You think following the rules will buy you a nice life, even if the rules make you a slave!"
I say 'with a twist', because, after a fashion, Inara also has chosen Mal's way of life. There's the rub:
Inara: "The Alliance has no quarrel with me. I supported unification."
Mal: "Did ya? Well, I don't suppose you're the only whore who did."
To Mal's way of thinking, Inara saying to (and in) his face that she supported unification, is directly aimed at him. Mal has a tendency of taking things personally ("You did it to me, Jayne, to me!"). I don't mean to say he believes Inara is paying him a personal insult; rather, internally, he does the math about a life-choice so different from his own, and then concludes -- instead of doing the mature thing of just accepting her different path -- that it's a rejection of his lifestyle somehow. He responds with a seemingly spiteful put-down: "Well, I don't suppose you're the only whore who did." Seemingly, because it's just his way of dealing (or rather not dealing) with having a good friend be on such opposite side of the fence: denial and ridicule.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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i recon in my far fetch imagination that something in his past involved a companion and the guild. maybe he fell inlove with a companion only to have her ripped away from him or something along hose lines. see what an imagination can do to you
"Kaylee grab that kid who's dirt napping with baby jesus, we need a hood ornament"
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