IMDB comments
POSTED BY: Fireflythemovie
UPDATED: Sunday, February 8, 2004 06:28
VIEWED: 26013
PAGE 7 of 11
... this BBS !!! Oops! Goram spell check done left me. 
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Thanks...If anyone likes warhistory...id recommend a book by Dr. Anthony Joes, "America and Guerilla Warfare." I had a course this semester with him on the subject and it was very interesting. Its a good read as well.
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I don't insult intelligence. Only willful bending of that intelligence to ensure one's misunderstanding of complex facts and inspire nauseating apologies for an evil and illegal regime which, of course, The Confederacy was.
Indeed I'm trying to appeal to your American-ness and your intelligence and only getting back the same uniformed drivel. I'm sorry if my tolerance for that is low. Time on Earth is too short for soft sell.
However- We can limit comversation to how cute Kaylee is or why Wash is SUCH a madman behind the wheel or how Joss got the show on the air in the first place considering the local atmo. I'm cool with that. Indeed that's why I came here in the first place.
But I also worried that the occassional comment, like those which caused this thread to diverge, would crop up.
This is the problem with basing fiction on such a complex and hurtful event as the Civil War. Any soft treatment of the activities of the aggressors (that would be the South, kids) allows for revisionists, apologists and sympathizers to have a feild day in the grey cracks.
Reading around me on this thread I see that that is, in fact, the sad result.
And, as for me being a "self appointed" anything, I'm not. I really LOVE Firefly. Check my blog.
What I don't love is anybody weaving it into the ugly history that comprised the South, the Confederacy and Reconstruction.
History is only fluid because people who don't like certin bits of it like to smooth or omit. I prefer my truths undiluted.
Just read the facts. Take out your grandfather's spin or your current political leanings. Just the unvarnished facts. There's only one possible conclusion. The not-as-bad guys beat the bad guys and then got on with the business of truly becoming Good. That business is, sadly, ongoing.
The Confederacy was an ugly rabid animal that needed to be put down before infecting the rest of the nation. THAT's what the war became about after the South started it.
Anyone who claims to beleive otherwise is either selling something or hasn't read enough.
I'm confident, given the time and enough access to facts, that even some of those who seem to dislike my veiw (or me 
) will eventually embrace the truth.
But that's just me. You know; Optimistic.
The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax
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^^^ well, I can agree that imho the Confederacy was in the wrong. That is, they were making a clearly illegal and greedy grab at ... well, everything. The rhetoric of the time (no, I don't know much about it) certainly shows the South to be the aggressor. The so called 'War of Northern Aggresion' is a cliche' as propoganda.
However... I believe everyone is taking your absolute position of 'the Confederates are scum! Evil!' with all the seriousness it deserves. Of course, any absolute is a failure to recognise the subtle fact that life isn't like that. Not by a long shot.
Colouring your comments with 'rabid ugly dog' and the like only makes you appear unretractable. Which you keep insisting too! Please, you keep telling us how knowledgeable you are about the subject yet insist on refering to the Confederacy as the very earthly embodyment of Hell itself. Well, compared to what? The Union? Yea, wonderful people *cough*. You see what I mean.
Sorry for being OT guy. Redjack... I hope you start a thread about the parallels you see in Firefly given you knowledge of the Civil War.
Myself... gonna go watch The Outlaw Josey Wales. 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ well, I can agree that imho the Confederacy was in the wrong. That is, they were making a clearly illegal and greedy grab at ... well, everything.
Big of you. Considering it's true.
Quote:
The rhetoric of the time (no, I don't know much about it) certainly shows the South to be the aggressor. The so called 'War of Northern Aggresion' is a cliche' as propoganda.
You should really check both the official rhetoric and, more importantly, the PRIVATE communications of Confederates at the time.
You have no idea how frustrating it is to try to sustain debate with folks who don't know the facts and don't wish to seek them out. Only yourself and one other seem to have even a tangential grasp of the events in question. Yet those who take the proConfederate side (did I say Yikes about that yet?) continue to flap their metaphoric gums.
Please.
As I said, it would be irritating if it wasn't so disappointing and sad.
Quote:
However... I believe everyone is taking your absolute position of 'the Confederates are scum! Evil!' with all the seriousness it deserves. Of course, any absolute is a failure to recognise the subtle fact that life isn't like that. Not by a long shot. Colouring your comments with 'rabid ugly dog' and the like only makes you appear unretractable.
I think it was "rabid ugly animal." I like dogs.
Quote:
Which you keep insisting too! Please, you keep telling us how knowledgeable you are about the subject yet insist on refering to the Confederacy as the very earthly embodyment of Hell itself.
Never did that. The only comparisson I drew was between the South and Hitler's Germany. Which is totally analogous given the 100 year gap and the technological differences. Though Andersonville was as close to Hell as most humans should ever hope to come.
Who ran that place again? Let's think.
The Confederacy was, for the 19th Century, almost precisely the same thing Hitler's Germany was to Euprope in the 20th.
The only difference between the victims of the Confederacy and the victims of the Nazis is skin color.
And, curiously, there aren't too many Nazi apologists running around these boards. Folks seem to be able to tell a hand from a hacksaw when their own great great grands aren't involved. The rosey lenses only appear when the needle points their way. Shocking.
Never said the Union was anything like Heaven. Never implied it either. "Not-as-bad" is how I described the Union.
Am I intractable? Sure. In the face of Evil? Abso-ruttin-lutely. The Confederate South was and remains a massive disgusting, truly evil blight on American history. Just as more than one of the Founders feared it would from the get.
The blight is even more pernicious because of the continual attempts to soften and minimize their behaviour by folks who don't even bother to learn what that behaviour actually was.
You and others have tried to paint me as hyperbolic yet have failed to produce even single factual refutation of any of my assertions.
The questions stand.
Name one thing- one single thing- that the South did or stood for that wasn't absolutely corrupted by or given the lie by the cancerous truth of their system.
Describe in detail those things the Articles of Confederation referred to that lift their cause up out of the go se.
Tick tock.
The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
No sense arguing w/ RJ Ghoulman. He or she will only insult you and start the name calling and question your intelligence.
Funny how the self appointed intellectual wannabes question everyone elses intelligence and claims.
I think most folk smelled the hate (make no mistake, that's what is being espoused, no matter how much icing it's dressed up in) and passed the bait a while ago.
FLAT-EARTHER
------------------------
SYLLABICATION: flat-earth·er
PRONUNCIATION: fltûrthr
NOUN: One who stubbornly adheres to outmoded or discredited ideas: “If you don't accept the ideas derived from Adam Smith … then you are [considered] a flat-earther” (James Fallows, Atlantic Monthly December 1993).
ETYMOLOGY: From the long-discredited belief that the earth is flat.
-frem
diefuxdie
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Quote:
Name one thing- one single thing- that the South did or stood for that wasn't absolutely corrupted by or given the lie by the cancerous truth of their system.
Name one thing- one single thing- that the North did or stood for that wasn't absolutely corrupted by or given the lie by the cancerous truth of their system.
A standing army
Federal Taxes
Conscription
(which is slavery, of the combat sort, and the North practiced it)
The Anti-Federalists of our founding fathers were concerned that a powerful, Federal government would become the monsterous all-consuming, self-serving beast that it has - they were CLEARLY correct even if scorned at the time.
(Go read the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers.)
These are the same folk who founded the Confederacy because that Federal Goverment began usurping powers reserved to the states ALONE, (Federal "fiat money" is in violation of the Constitution for example) and it was well on it's way to the bloated fascist monstrosity it is today.
I dare one to tell me that Patrick Henry would not be loading his trusty rifle after one good look at what we have now ?
Enough with the hate, both sides were fighting for something they really believed in, enough to die for it - men are not evil, governments are not evil, only *actions* are.
To blame someone for doing what they felt was "right" at the time and in the historical context from hindsight is easy, but it is not correct - they felt they were protecting their way of life from an oppressive, ever-expanding nightmare of red tape, taxes and exploitation.
Go on, tell us that's not exactly what happened to them when they lost ?
150 years from now, some twit on a FOPTIC Interplanet net will likely be calling US "evil"... but we ain't, some of the things we do are.
-frem
diefuxdie
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Wow - this topic has gone WAYYYYYYY off the original mark.
So here's my 2 cents - The IMDB has a new update which reads:
User Comments:
Animus
Hickory, NC
Date: 13 December 2003
Summary: a great series lost in FOX TVs bugzapper
FIREFLY is one of the best television series' to appear in a long time. Sadly it appeared on FOX where only the moderate will do. To have a series that is well acted, well written and brilliantly filmed is anathema to network television. FIREFLY deserved so much more, as did its fans who will never get to see the series go to the wondrous and vibrant worlds that the series would have explored had it not been shot down during its ascent. We'll never know what the real deal with River was, what Book's mysterious background was, who the Reavers truly were nor even the story behind the Blue Sun. Alas poor FIREFLY, we never knew ye...
So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it!
www.fof-films.com
Firefly Fan Film - Coming SOON
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Wow - this topic has gone WAYYYYYYY off the original mark.
So here's my 2 cents - The IMDB has a new update which reads:
User Comments:
Animus
Hickory, NC
Date: 13 December 2003
Summary: a great series lost in FOX TVs bugzapper
FIREFLY is one of the best television series' to appear in a long time. Sadly it appeared on FOX where only the moderate will do. To have a series that is well acted, well written and brilliantly filmed is anathema to network television. FIREFLY deserved so much more, as did its fans who will never get to see the series go to the wondrous and vibrant worlds that the series would have explored had it not been shot down during its ascent. We'll never know what the real deal with River was, what Book's mysterious background was, who the Reavers truly were nor even the story behind the Blue Sun. Alas poor FIREFLY, we never knew ye...
So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it!
www.fof-films.com
Firefly Fan Film - Coming SOON
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Quote:
the aggressors (that would be the South, kids)
Point of info: in the strictest historical sense (and this is one of your beloved immutable FACTS) the forces of the North (i.e. Union) were the "aggressors" as they were the first to formally declare war. Against the South.
I feel a LITTLE like a troll for pointing this out, but you do profess a desire to argue the facts...
Not that I disagree with your main argument, either :)
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