IMDB comments
POSTED BY: Fireflythemovie
UPDATED: Sunday, February 8, 2004 06:28
VIEWED: 26013
PAGE 8 of 11
double post
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triple post (damn it)
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QUADRUPLE post (GOR-AMMIT!)
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QUINTUPLE post! what's WROOOOONG with me? must be some kind of horrible record, anyway....
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Name one thing- one single thing- that the North did or stood for that wasn't absolutely corrupted by or given the lie by the cancerous truth of their system.
Off the top of my head as I walk out to door...
The Union prevented slavery from expanding to new states.
The Union allowed blacks, one in particular, to have access to the president as an advisor.
The Union allowed fleeing slaves a safe haven or safe passage through to Canada.
The Union preserved the Union. Had that not occured things would have gone from bad to worse. Odds are good that neither the Confederacy nor the Union would have survived to present day.
I will modify this list when i get back. I'm sure there are shinier Union achievements.
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A standing army
Um. That's bad?
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Federal Taxes
So you don't like highways and phone lines and clean water and medicine etc.? Interesting.
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Conscription
(which is slavery, of the combat sort, and the North practiced it)
Well. You got me there. Conscription is awful.
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The Anti-Federalists of our founding fathers were concerned that a powerful, Federal government would become the monsterous all-consuming, self-serving beast that it has - they were CLEARLY correct even if scorned at the time.
(Go read the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers.)
Read 'em cheif. And I think my comprehension of the papers is somewhat shinier than yours.
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These are the same folk who founded the Confederacy because that Federal Goverment began usurping powers reserved to the states ALONE, (Federal "fiat money" is in violation of the Constitution for example) and it was well on it's way to the bloated fascist monstrosity it is today.
That's a load of go se. Again. The Federal government offended the Confederates by exercising its powers over INTERSTATE COMMERCE. And what was it that was being regulated out of existance? Three guesses.
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I dare one to tell me that Patrick Henry would not be loading his trusty rifle after one good look at what we have now ?
You have no idea what Patrick Henry would or would not do in modern times. Other than continue to rot.
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Enough with the hate, both sides were fighting for something they really believed in, enough to die for it - men are not evil, governments are not evil, only *actions* are.
Sorry. All beleifs are not equal. The nazis had a fairly detailed beleif structure too. And, frnakly, there was more dissent in their ranks (they tried to KILL Hitler after all) than ever evidenced itself in the Confederacy.
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To blame someone for doing what they felt was "right" at the time and in the historical context from hindsight is easy, but it is not correct - they felt they were protecting their way of life from an oppressive, ever-expanding nightmare of red tape, taxes and exploitation.
I haven't done that. I have used the morals and philosophies of the time to damn those scumbags. I've used their own words.
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Go on, tell us that's not exactly what happened to them when they lost ?
It's less than they deserved. But let's look at the Presidency of Andrew Johnson shall we? Lincoln wasn't even cold before he began cutting, reshaping or recasting all the efforts which had been put in place to give the degraded population of former slaves some parity with their former oppressors. In short order he used arcane economic means to shackle those people to the same land they'd been forced to work before the war. Jim Crow. Perhaps you've heard of it.
And you still haven't ponied up any answers.
* edited Johnson for jackson to acknowledge the correction, not to hide the mistake.
The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax
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When you just discard any fact that is inconvenient to your argument....
(like the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers and how they reflect on the topic)
It defeats the point of the discussion.
You call the Confeds "evil" and then use this to "justify" the "evil" conduct of the Union, which is STILL following the same practices ?
Ludicrous.
Have your flat earth and green sky, just don't try to foist it on us.
-frem
diefuxdie
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Quote:
Originally posted by Redjack:
But let's look at the Presidency of Andrew Jackson shall we? Lincoln wasn't even cold before he began cutting, reshaping or recasting all the efforts...
I believe you are referring to the Presidency of Andrew JOHNSON, as "Ole Hickory" died almost twenty years before Lincoln did.
And on a minor note, Jackson was something of a racist himself: he HATED the INDIANS, and tried to instigate his own little pogrom, somewhat less effective than smallpox, but...
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The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Well, I think you oughta at LEAST know yer POTUS'S.
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Johnson. Sorry. One slip. Hadda happen eventually.
The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
When you just discard any fact that is inconvenient to your argument....
(like the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers and how they reflect on the topic)
It defeats the point of the discussion.
I'm more than happy to slap you around with the Federalist/Anti-Federalist debate. Raise a specific point and I will either agree or correct you.
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You call the Confeds "evil" and then use this to "justify" the "evil" conduct of the Union, which is STILL following the same practices?
I call them evil because they are demonstrably so. No quotations. I justify nothing.
On a side note... are you an American? Are you seriously proposing that the Confedracy was NOT evil? Or that the Union was the lesser of the two societies? Be specific in how that can possibly be so.
Also...
What evil Union practices are ongoing? Be specific. Then tell me how a Confederate win would have changed these conditions. This should be good for a laugh.
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Ludicrous.
Yes. you are.
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Have your flat earth and green sky, just don't try to foist it on us.
I'm a Flat Earther. Yet the list of benign Confederate accomplishments continuues not to appear. Funny that.
Come into the Light Carol-Anne.
The Price of Knowledge is Knowing.
Audrid Dax
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Quote:
Originally posted by Redjack:
Johnson. Sorry. One slip. Hadda happen eventually.
Two slips, actually: please read my previous post concerning your mislabelling the South as the "aggressor".
Three slips, even, if we count BOTH of your erroneous references to the Jackson[sic] presidency following Lincoln's demise.
BTW, is your nickname chosen in honour of Jack the Ripper? IIRC, that's one of HIS nicknames, too...if so, kind of an odd choice, considering your stern stance on historical evil.
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