Faith and Reason
POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 4, 2006 04:36
VIEWED: 7253
PAGE 3 of 5
I still haven't found the time to read it. It's been a busy week at work, and it doesn't look like it's going to let up for several more. I'm a devout atheist as well, so I'm not sure it going to do anything more for me than it did for you. But I'm looking forward to reading it just the same.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell
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what is the evidence that supports the God delusion? i assume God, and the concept of such a deity, is the root cause of every evil the world has ever known.. and the removal of religion, and all spiritual worldviews, would be the cataylst to bridge the gap of all known iniquities, and finally unite man in indivisive cooperation?
i just want to know if that is your assertion; since that seems to be the general attitude of athiests i meet; that the world religions are to blame for everything
basically that Darwinism is proven 100% verifiable.. and scientism, adopted as a new worldview, would more successfully bring upon global peace?
you missed the links i posted last time that suggested that Darwinism is a clever repackaging of freemasonic, occult theology... i guess you missed them, so here they are again
*ascendency of a scientific dictatorship
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Ascendancy.htm
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Ascendancy2.htm
id like to hear your opinions on them, but ultimately i am curious of your personal worldviews, and your premise for the argument that all cultures of antiquety were dillusional
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Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
what is the evidence that supports the God delusion? i assume God, and the concept of such a deity, is the root cause of every evil the world has ever known.. and the removal of religion, and all spiritual worldviews, would be the cataylst to bridge the gap of all known iniquities, and finally unite man in indivisive cooperation?
i just want to know if that is your assertion; since that seems to be the general attitude of athiests i meet; that the world religions are to blame for everything
Personally, I think that religion is just the most convenient excuse. If it wasn't religion, it'd just be something else i.e. People like power and some will do just about anything to get it and/or more of it.
Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
basically that Darwinism is proven 100% verifiable.. and scientism, adopted as a new worldview, would more successfully bring upon global peace?
Point of fact, evolution is not 100% proven. It just has the most going for it. Also, given my (pretty much proven) conjecture about the human condition, I gather that global peace is unattainable.
Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
you missed the links i posted last time that suggested that Darwinism is a clever repackaging of freemasonic, occult theology... i guess you missed them, so here they are again
*ascendency of a scientific dictatorship
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Ascendancy.htm
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Ascendancy2.htm
I like the domain that those links are to as the first thing that I thought of when I read the statment that "Darwinism is a..." I immediately thought conspiracy theory. I'll try to get around to read those links though. Should proven an interesting read.
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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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well i appreciate your openmind; im not completely ruling out evolution as a natural process.. im just not willing to deny the Creator hypothesis either; since it makes an incredible case for itself given what is known about the pre-deluvian era, and the commonality of archetypical, divine intervention myths. i genuinely believe that mans true origins have been denied us, and groups like the freemasons and other esoteric occult secret societies withold knowledge that comes directly from these fallen angelic entities
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Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
what is the evidence that supports the God delusion? i assume God, and the concept of such a deity, is the root cause of every evil the world has ever known.. and the removal of religion, and all spiritual worldviews, would be the cataylst to bridge the gap of all known iniquities, and finally unite man in indivisive cooperation?
As I previously noted, I haven't yet had the time to read the book, and I probably won't be able to read it for several weeks. So, I honestly couldn't say what Dawkin's evidence might be. I personally don't think that God (or the concept thereof) is the root cause of every evil, but there's no denying that many of the most heinous atrocities ever perpetrated were brought about by peoples' belief that they were doing God(s) will.
And while I might like to see a world in which religion takes a back seat to reason, I know this will never happen; however, if it were possible, then yes I do think we'd find a good deal more equality, humanity, compassion, and cooperation, as religion, at least as it is practiced by many people, teaches division, intolerance, and all too frequently outright hatred.
As for the conspiracy stuff, I hardly know what to say to that, because I've never been one to follow such things. But I really see no connection between Darwin's Theory of Evolution and freemasonic, occult theology. One is grounded in overwhelming scientific evidence, and the other is founded upon archaic, superstitious nonsense. Please, don't take that the wrong way, but I neither believe nor have much use for most of the conspiratorial rantings I've read.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell
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Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Aldous Huxley wrote BNW. His grandfather, Thomas Henry, was a defender and contemporary of Darwin. Aldous was not a "mentor" to Charles Darwin or vice versa, seeing how Aldous was born (1894)after Darwin died (1882).
your right.. i was confused in my mind, i knew there was some family influence though
Quote:
On another note, don't make the incorrect assertion that the theories of evolution and natural selection were based upon Christian foundations, nor are they 'beliefs' in and of themselves. Darwin was (at times) a Christian, so was T.H.Huxley (at times), but both men were scientists first and foremost. Huxley believed that science was common sense, and even though he was primarily an agnostic he believed the Bible could teach strong moral values - but not science.
dont worry... the thought never crossed my mind; actually the link i posted makes the claim that Darwin and his idealogical proteges were fairly well acquanted with the doctrines of the occult heirarchy (masons, rosicrucians, illuminists, royal and lunar society members), and may have incorporated these laws into Darwins own theories. but i would have to disagree with huxley, the bible doesnt discourage scientific knowledge, it just ultimately attributes it to a greater power
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Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
actually the link i posted makes the claim that Darwin and his idealogical proteges were fairly well acquanted with the doctrines of the occult heirarchy (masons, rosicrucians, illuminists, royal and lunar society members), and may have incorporated these laws into Darwins own theories.
Darwin in later life was an atheist. T.H.Huxley was at best an agnostic, as were most of their contemporaries - they were not occult practitioners.
No offense, Antimason, but it is the height of ignorance to claim that the scientific theories put forth by those men are the result of some occult conspiracy. As someone above pointed out, the fact that the domain names just scream tinfoil-hat crackpots is an insult to both religion and science.
But hey, if you need to believe that lizard-alien hybrids (who hate Jesus) from beyond the stars have come to take over the government and steer our scientific discoveries, then hey - whatever helps you sleep at night.
------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
im not completely ruling out evolution as a natural process..
Given the landslide of evidence that supports evolution, why aren't you leaning toward it at least (you seem to lean toward creator)?
Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
im just not willing to deny the Creator hypothesis either;
...
withold knowledge that comes directly from these fallen angelic entities
From these two statments you seem to believe that there are "angelic entities" or are at least assuming them. What actual evidence of there existance exists? B/c, I've seen nothing but hand-waving, "you have to have faith" type arugments from people, or at best cooked stats for such things.
----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Einstein's quote about science without religion is taken out of context in that he is not talking about religion in the sense of a belief in God but in a 'cosmic religious sense'. He had no faith and was openly athiestic despite the negative press he received for it.
"I do not think that it is necessarily the case that science and religion are natural opposites. In fact, I think that there is a very close connection between the two. Further, I think that science without religion is lame and, conversely, that religion without science is blind. Both are important and should work hand-in-hand."
Okay, there it is in a wider context.
"In response to the telegrammed question of New York's Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in 1929: "Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid 50 words." Einstein replied "I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." Note that Einstein replied in only 25 (German) words. Spinoza was a naturalistic pantheist."
Spinoza believed that God is nature and the universe at work and that God doesn't have a personality. The definition of atheism is: A lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Clearly while Einstein did not believe in the traditional Judeo-Christian God, he did believe in God and was not an atheist.
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/
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Einstein was awed by the complexity of the universe and by his place in it. He referred to this magnificent natural structure as God, but by no means did he mean it in a theistic sense. I could just as easily call the universe 'God' and share Einstein's reason for doing so, however this would not stop me being an athiest, as I would not believe in God the deity, but God the universe.
Another Einstein quote on religion:
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion. I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What i see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuine religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."
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I do not kill with my hand.
He who kills with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.
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