Did Book know the Miranda secret?
POSTED BY: DonCoat
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 4, 2006 00:50
VIEWED: 5028
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Quote:Okay, I don't remember a line like that. I'll have to re-watch Bushwhacked to see what he says.
Originally posted by citizen:
Did he know? No.
In the series he has a line in Bushwhacked that lends me to believe that he believes that Reavers can be rehabillitated, through the Bible for instance.
If he knew where and how Reavers were made would he really think a bit of understanding and the words of the good book would convince them from dining out on Human finger dip?
Of course, depending on which interpretation you make, it could still fit with the "Book knew" idea. For one thing, he could have been sustaining the disinformation story. Or he might have been fooling himself into thinking that faith could work a "talking cure" on the Reavers, even knowing their true origin. Or he might have found out the truth sometime between Bushwhacked and the BDM.
I wonder -- did Book do anything when he was aboard that Alliance cruiser in Safe, other than get medical treatment? Maybe he had a quiet chat with the local branch of the intelligence service, or representatives of the Blue Hands outfit.
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Quote:Well, sure, but then River already knew, didn't she? She got that information in the Academy, even before she met Book.
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
I don't think Book knew about Miranda, River would have read that off of him by now.
Maybe the fact that Book knew was one of the things that kept her from getting better -- she kept reading it from him and that brought the nightmares back.
Quote:Agreed! But I don't think that would get him in any more trouble than letting River go would. No doubt they still want her for her "human weapon" abilities, maybe even more so now that she has them under conscious control. And Book, though still honored, was (probably) not an active agent anymore, so his loss would be less keen.
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
Pez mentioned something intriguing the other day....How much trouble will the Operative get in once 'they' find out Book was killed at Haven?
Ooooo, I said. Interesting idea.
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Quote:I think the time line works just fine. The Miranda disaster took place a good ten years before the BDM, before the Unification War. Book left the abbey just hours before Serenity (pilot), which gives Book eight years or so to get his soul in order.
Originally posted by MrT:
Maybe it was the Miranda episode that lead to him leaving the government and going to the monastery to find peace with his conscience, or leaving the monastery and heading into the black to see if he could find peace with himself there... I’m not too sure about the time-line of events on this I’m afraid.
Even if you imagine Book entered the abbey after the war, he'd still have six years of the contemplative life before joining the good ship S.
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Quote:I think the whole disinformation thing is a major stretch. Also if Book knew it would make sense to expose that in the film.
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Of course, depending on which interpretation you make, it could still fit with the "Book knew" idea. For one thing, he could have been sustaining the disinformation story. Or he might have been fooling himself into thinking that faith could work a "talking cure" on the Reavers, even knowing their true origin. Or he might have found out the truth sometime between Bushwhacked and the BDM.
Quote:I doubt it, he couldn't even remember who had treated him, Mal had to tell him.
I wonder -- did Book do anything when he was aboard that Alliance cruiser in Safe, other than get medical treatment? Maybe he had a quiet chat with the local branch of the intelligence service, or representatives of the Blue Hands outfit.
Quote:Actually according to the timeline it happened just before the unification war. This is also borne out by Kaylee remembering it. She's quite young, early twenties at most. If it had taken place ten years before the unification war Kaylee would be what, between 4 and 8? It's unlikely she'd remember "calls for people to settle on Miranda" from that age. Do you remember what adverts were on TV when you were 4?
I think the time line works just fine. The Miranda disaster took place a good ten years before the BDM, before the Unification War.
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Quote:You misread my statement, which is odd since you quoted it. I said the Miranda incident occurred ten years before the BDM. That was also before the Unification War, but not ten years before the war.
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually according to the timeline it happened just before the unification war. This is also borne out by Kaylee remembering it. She's quite young, early twenties at most. If it had taken place ten years before the unification war Kaylee would be what, between 4 and 8? It's unlikely she'd remember "calls for people to settle on Miranda" from that age. Do you remember what adverts were on TV when you were 4?
Originally posted by DonCoat:
I think the time line works just fine. The Miranda disaster took place a good ten years before the BDM, before the Unification War.
As to your other points, you could well be correct... but I think it's an interesting possibility worth some discussion. There are so many places Joss could have taken the series! I have a hunch that at some point, Book would have done something very, very bad (from our BDHs' perspective). Like maybe betray them at some critical moment. Possibly it would have been written in such a way that Book felt he was compelled by his faith to do so. That wouldn't be unlike Joss, from all I've heard.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
The actual line is more like this (to my ears):
"I don't care what you believe. Just believe it. Whatever you..." -trails off, dies-
Could be. I listened to it the other night on this surround sound system, and I'll just say - if he squeezed that many words into that time frame, he's quite the mumbler!
Quote:
I asked Ron Glass about this at last year's Flanvention. I wondered whether the line had been changed, or if he'd done it various ways and they chose that one, or what. He wasn't even aware there was any discrepancy. He got a bit offended when I suggested he might have ad libbed. He takes great pride in performing his lines as written/directed. (I almost felt ashamed for asking the question, as if I'd suggested he'd eaten a baby or something!)
That made me laugh :)
Quote:
None of that makes my speculation any less likely. A disinformation campaign of the sort I'm proposing would not be spread via overt statements in newscasts. It would work more like today's urban myths or internet rumors.
I agree with you; I like to think of the series in terms of what frontier life consists of and how spattered the stories that come back are. Someone, of course, learned of the Reavers and leaked their very existance to someone in the general public. Then began the Alliance's efforts to discredit such stories, which, as you stated, took many many forms.
I'm very smart.
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I personally don't even believe Book's last name was the truth. I kinda think that he may have been a former operative (pure speculation). The reason I believe "Book" to be an operative is b/c they don't exist, yet he knew of them, and in the BDM, he tells our Cap'n that there's probably an operative on the case now. However, since there is a period of 8 months b/t the begining of the TV series and the time period posed in the BDM, why would the Alliance wait 8 months to assign this to an operative?
Allow me to confess my ignorance, if there is information to fill in the gap b/t the tv series, which so sadly ended in its infancy, and the BDM. I am a relative noob @ this.
Oh, and to answer your question regarding Book knowing about Miranda, I don't think so, based on my opinion of he being an operative, and The operative in the BDM obviously didn't know the truth either.
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Quote:I personally don't hold to the "Book was an (ex-)operative" theory. There are plenty of other highly-placed people who could have knowledge of Niska, military and government operations and tactics, and the other mysterious things Book reveals from time to time. I like to think he had several careers, perhaps beginning in the military, then law enforcement or possibly intelligence. He could even have been a member of Parliament at one point, or possibly a staffer working for an MP. Finally, for one reason or another, he had a crisis of conscience and entered the abbey. But of course, your speculations are every bit as good as mine.
Originally posted by Montanabrowncoat:
I personally don't even believe Book's last name was the truth. I kinda think that he may have been a former operative (pure speculation). The reason I believe "Book" to be an operative is b/c they don't exist, yet he knew of them, and in the BDM, he tells our Cap'n that there's probably an operative on the case now. However, since there is a period of 8 months b/t the begining of the TV series and the time period posed in the BDM, why would the Alliance wait 8 months to assign this to an operative?
Allow me to confess my ignorance, if there is information to fill in the gap b/t the tv series, which so sadly ended in its infancy, and the BDM. I am a relative noob @ this.
Oh, and to answer your question regarding Book knowing about Miranda, I don't think so, based on my opinion of he being an operative, and The operative in the BDM obviously didn't know the truth either.
I would say your time line is off a little. Most folks say there's no more than two months between Objects In Space and the start of the BDM. Mal says Simon and River have only been on the ship eight months at that point (that is, 8 mos from Serenity pilot to Serenity movie), though he may have been mistaken.
And yes, there is some 'canon' that partly fills the gap between the series and movie. It's a 3-book comic series written by Joss. It's now available as a single volume "graphic novel" called "Serenity - Those Left Behind". Amazon can provide.
And in case nobody said so before, WELCOME! Always glad to have a new Browncoat aboard. If you haven't done so, post a little "hello" thread over in General Discussions and tell us how you found your way here. You'll soon be showered with strawberries, Mudder's Milk, and a virtual browncoat of your very own.
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Quote:I appologise, but still, just before the U-War is six years, not ten.
Originally posted by DonCoat:
You misread my statement, which is odd since you quoted it. I said the Miranda incident occurred ten years before the BDM. That was also before the Unification War, but not ten years before the war.
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No need to apologize, Citizen. Maybe I could have phrased things more clearly. In any case I was just trying to make my point, which nobody is obliged to agree with. Not trying to cause any great schism in fandom!
I did mention that there was a six-year gap from the U-war to Serenity pilot, which I argue is enough time for Book to get his shepherd's collar even if Book didn't enter the abbey until then. Since Miranda was earlier still, he would have even longer in the abbey (if we assume he took his vows back then).
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