Religion and the Founding Fathers
POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Sunday, October 1, 2006 00:54
VIEWED: 7627
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At present the United States of America is not a Christian nation. No Christian nation would kill its own children as the USA does in abortions every day.
The United States however was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs found in The Bible (ever hear of it?) and the founding fathers had something that unfortunately not to many people do in America these days....a fear of God.
Captain James T. Kirk
USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
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At present the United States of America is not a Christian nation. No Christian nation would kill its own children as the USA does in abortions every day.
The United States however was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs found in The Bible (ever hear of it?) and the founding fathers had something that unfortunately not to many people do in America these days....a fear of God.
Captain James T. Kirk
USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
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At present the United States of America is not a Christian nation. No Christian nation would kill its own children as the USA does in abortions every day.
The United States however was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs found in The Bible (ever hear of it?) and the founding fathers had something that unfortunately not to many people do in America these days....a fear of God.
Captain James T. Kirk
USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
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No, killing babies that can be used to put nonbelievers to the sword is most definatly not the Christian way. A good Christian nation would allow it's babies to die horribly killing other peoples babies I guess.
The US wasn't founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs, not unless you redefine and appropriate certain beliefs as Christian only (which some Christians tend to do I'll grant you) and do a little bit of rewriting history (again a bit of a Christian trait that).
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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citizen - point out to me the verse in the Bible where Jesus' endorses genocide, murder, persecution, indifference, bigotry, hate, deception, secrecy, greed or any other negetive action? show me! so that we can conclusively link SIN to christianity.. then we'll send our research into the media entitled "christianity linked to every and all of the worlds horrors"... we'll even put your name on it, so as you can have all the credit for diagnosing the cancer of mankind
please, i would like to see the evidence to your claim that Jesus' endorses genocide; because it wont be found!
the bible says that Mans nature is fallen, that all men are imperfect... so dont you understand that sin corrupts everyone?
are you claiming that only christians are murderers? lets take a mass of people.. lets say in china, and lets call them all buddhists: why is their still a crime rate? why are there still murders and scams and robberies and rapes? because MAN IS INHERENTLY IMPERFECT!
the purpose of Jesus' coming was to give man an example of perfection, to give us a model of God that mankind can strive for. can you follow Jesus' commands to a T? if you can, you might just be God manifest..but if you cant, then welcome to the club, as you are just as imperfect and sinfull as the rest of mankind.
if ANYONE< ANYWHERE< FOR ANY REASON committs a sin on behalf of JEsus', they are not doing Jesus' will.. they are doing their own, just as any human being is when they commit a selfish act for gain. what i love is that if you arent christian, your sinful acts are your own responsibilty, an act of your own freewill.. but if you believe in Jesus, then Jesus' must have made you do it. dont you see your hypocracy?
we can go back and forth all day pointing out atrocities committed by people of all pursuasions.. yet it will be the christians that you all cease upon as the culprit to all the evils of the world... nevermind that the bibles message is TO CONVINCE US TO ACT OTHERWISE! i mean, how do you reconcile that with your worldview then? whether the INDIVIDUAL is strong enough to resist the sinful temptation is a judgement upon the INDIVIDUAL, not the message of our doctrines
are you upset that christians are imperfect? me too.. which is why we are to strive for a persona beyond this world that would be seen as righteous to an entity beyond perfection. yet when we fail.. are we any different then the rest of you, who share the same inherint faults as the rest of the species?? then recognize the hypocracy of your judgements, because we all share in the same experiences
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I never said anything about Jesus, Jesus preached the destruction of the church so why you harp on about Jesus teachings in relation to the Christian church when the two are more or less mutually exclusive I have absolutely no idea.
What I can do is show you where the BIBLE endorses genocide, murder, persecution, indifference, bigotry, hate, deception, secrecy, greed or any other negative action, thing is there's rather a lot of it so I don't really know where to start.
Maybe you can come up with the proof of how the Crusades weren't ordered and endorsed by the Roman Catholic church? Or how it's not really Christians who aren't really throwing bombs at abortion clinics. The latter is really quite funny in it's hypocrisy, they're willing to murder people for being 'murderers'.
You may want to be sure of what it is you are arguing against next time, CAPTAINJAMESKIRK was harping on about how much better things would be in a good Christian nation. Well you know what a good Christian Nation is? One that sends it's good Christian soldiers out to put the heathens to the sword.
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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I never said anything about Jesus, Jesus preached the destruction of the church so why you harp on about Jesus teachings in relation to the Christian church when the two are more or less mutually exclusive I have absolutely no idea.Quote:
heres the thing Citizen- christian by definition is to conform to the likeness of Jesus. you may be refferring to what has been historically referred to as the "church", but to God, the church are those who do HIS WILL on earth, not the ANTchrists
Jesus is fundemental to all of my arguements around here, because Jesus does not support the behavior that can be plainly exposed as immoral and destructive. so then, are these christian political whores on the right who promote this fearmongering agenda of Terror and evil muslims christian, by definition? NO.. so these distinctions need to be made, as their is a fine line between christian and occultic
show me where Jesus acts immorally, otherwise understand that Jesus does not influence immoral behavior; period. the PURPOSE of God manifesting IN THE FLESH, was so Man could once again have a spiritual relationship with an entity uncomprehendable to us in our fallen state. Jesus as God manifest is the essence of christianity.. anything which claims to be christian, but negates or perverts Gods word is IN REALITY ANTIchristian*, regardless of what its motives or claims are.Quote:
What I can do is show you where the BIBLE endorses genocide, murder, persecution, indifference, bigotry, hate, deception, secrecy, greed or any other negative action, thing is there's rather a lot of it so I don't really know where to start.
Maybe you can come up with the proof of how the Crusades weren't ordered and endorsed by the Roman Catholic church? Or how it's not really Christians who aren't really throwing bombs at abortion clinics. The latter is really quite funny in it's hypocrisy, they're willing to murder people for being 'murderers'.Quote:
but does Jesus ever say that its "ok" to murder 'sinners', that its our duty to expose and judge people? no.. never, Jesus states plainly that only God is fit to judge, as he says "do not judge, or you will be judged".
again, if someone is not living by Jesus' word, then they are not true to the heart christians, but are just wearing it like a political label. when God says "no one is righteous, not one" he is implying that everybody falls short of Gods will. but do we recognize our faults, or sins, and correct them? or do we decide for ourselves what is moral or immoral? that is the important distinctionQuote:
You may want to be sure of what it is you are arguing against next time, CAPTAINJAMESKIRK was harping on about how much better things would be in a good Christian nation. Well you know what a good Christian Nation is? One that sends it's good Christian soldiers out to put the heathens to the sword.Quote:
are we talking about Rome? because this should be clear by now that the Catholic church was so thoroughly infiltrated by occult doctrines from early on that it became in itself an antichristian force. i would love to have been their to have seen the Papacy justify war and murder, since Jesus' own words are
"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. if someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. do to others as you would have them do to you. if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? even 'sinners' do that. but love your enemies, do good to them; then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. be merciful, just as your Father is merciful"
im just showing you that the scriptures do not influence people to do these things.. if we are going to have a debate on the merits of christianity, lets be straight forward about the doctrines that actually taught by Jesus and the prophets
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By your definition of Christianity there are no Christians, I'm not sure how that defends anything in anyway.
Look, I really have no care to how you rationalise attrocities committed by Christians. I was arguing against 'good Christian nations', evidently you think such a thing is a good idea.
Good luck with that, and when the good Christian government is putting people to death I'm sure those people will be comforted by you explaining that they aren't really Christians so it's not the Christian Theocratic government doing these things.
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Quote:Even George Washington on his deathbed turned the priest away.
...the founding fathers had something that unfortunately not to many people do in America these days....a fear of God.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
By your definition of Christianity there are no Christians, I'm not sure how that defends anything in anyway.Quote:
im still waiting for you to show me which part of Jesus' message is so heinous that it directly inspires violence.. otherwise, you have no proof that christianity as a idealogy is responsible for all this destructive behavior. unless you have an idealogy, that you subsribe to, which promotes immoral behavior, then one acts that way out of their own free will.. dont you understand?
Jesus' PROMOTES love and tolerance, it is human nature that is corruptQuote:
Look, I really have no care to how you rationalise attrocities committed by Christians. I was arguing against 'good Christian nations', evidently you think such a thing is a good idea.Quote:
i dont rationalize any atrocities by anyone... do you see me excusing genocide or conquests of any kind? listen to my message and understand : it is not JESUS who is responsible for these things. if Mohammed preaches terror as honorable, then the Koran becomes suspect... but if the Korans message is peace, then it is the individual follower who bears the blame. what influences you when you descriminate against christians? your own free will.. just as anyone who makes a conscious choice to act unjustly doesQuote:
Good luck with that, and when the good Christian government is putting people to death I'm sure those people will be comforted by you explaining that they aren't really Christians so it's not the Christian Theocratic government doing these things.Quote:
the christian government? which one would that be?
Citizen ive tried to say countless times that what you think is christian is actually occultist. what defines a government as christian to you? the US government removed all references to God and the 10 commandments long ago... if your talking about symbols, like the "all seeing eye of providence".. these are OCCULT SYMBOLS! read any one of my previous posts in threads and you will see me make this point
until you consider occultism to be a legitimate presence, and a perversion of christianity, you will never understand the governments of this current age. the bible says that governments, authorities and powers, OF THIS WORLD(which means in all of mans history) are OPPOSED TO THE WILL OF GOD!
in the OT, God did not give Israel a government, they CHOSE a government themselves, against Gods will, because in their weak spiritual nature they wanted to be ruled over by Kings. there is no such thing as a christian government... if you cant comprehend this message, i wouldnt even know where to begin with you; but start with a bible, and a concordance, and look up "the world"; as every institution of power in this world is of Lucifer, not of Jesus; that is the bibles message, clear as day
your issue is that you dont believe God exists, so Jesus wasnt this GOd manifest, and the Bible is merely this fanciful fairy... so Jesus and his message is irrelevant to you. you see christian as a label that you can stereotype everyone into, to fit this preconceived notion of yours of these shallow, dogmatic, ignorant, un-informed war mongers.. when in reality it has become obvious that you truly dont even understand christianity. i have made point after point that Jesus, God manifest, never not once supports these terrible concepts that you attribute to christians; but rather states that these are signs of ANTICHRISTIANITY (or a false messiah, or false doctrine). am i denying that christians have committed sins? no..but that christianity does not influnce this sin
i have never condoned or apologized for the behavior of people who CLAIM to be followers of Jesus but break THE MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDS.. i have gone out of way to explain that such people are wolves in sheeps clothing.
i am trying to make the point, if youll acknowledge it, that there is no scriptural justification for the negative actions of christians in the past. every sin is the fault of mans fallen nature, wNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME