Chavez agrees with me
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Saturday, September 30, 2006 01:33
VIEWED: 5105
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Quote:We can ALL do "a lot better". The question is- "Is Chavez doing better for Venezuela than his immediate predecessors?"
Venezuela can do a lot better.
I know that you want things to resemble your ideal: small competitive businesses, robust middle class, small government, as much as possible at the local level. Transparency. But the fact is that large businesses are sitting like squat toads on everything including government. And that people "like" Cheney are in charge everywhere and will not be dislodged w/o considerable strife. And it may not be in ways that you like.
As far as the Clinton/ Bush twinship: Your list of "good leaders" versus "bad leaders" makes me think that you don't quite have all the facts. MANY of the current appointees (like "Death Squad" Negroponte and "arms dealer" Abrams) were part of the Reagan administration. Reagan, as you might recall, was either deeply involved in Iran-Contra or deeply unaware of the doings of his own appointees and their subordinates. There is far more continuity between Bush and Reagan than between Bush and Clinton. Which makes me think that your conclusions are suspect at best.
Perosnally, I think Halliburton was not on Clinton's radar. He should get tarred with NAFTA, but I think some things were done despite Clinton not because of him.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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I am no expert on chavez, so I'll take your arguments at face value. I'm not sure you can grade Venezuela on the same scale you would say, the U.S. though. Assuming he is deforresting, asuming he's making sweet-heart deals for his 'commie' friends...can you really judge these choices in a vacuum that doesn't include a need to side with somebody while not towing the Pro-America Pillage-all-for-the-corporations global policies?
It's amazing he's lasted so long as it is - you don't think he needs allies of a different ilk? You don't think he's rational for thinking he needs an army?
Like I said - not a Chavez or political science expert, but could those bad policies you argue he has enacted still be the best possible, given his limited options? Couldn't he actually be acting in the best interst of his people within that range of options? Not trying to prop him up...just trying to understand this stuff better.
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Quote:
The question is- "Is Chavez doing better for Venezuela than his immediate predecessors?"
No, it's not.
Venezuela is doing better because it just found a motherlode of oil (directly prior to Chavez) and so of course things will improve. But... and there's a lot of but here, is it doing better with Chavez than it would be with a political rival?
The question of G.W.Bush is not whether he's better or worse than Clinton. (Probably Neither) It's whether he's got the American People's interests at heart (He doesn't.)
I didn't claim Reagan was perfect, but neither was Carter. I'm surprised you didn't attack Eisenhower for nuclear testing, which is what I would have done, and almost did. But I was making a comparison. Reagan, and a lot of good people in his govt., had the interests of America in mind, and things were pretty good in the 80s. New businesses got started, scientific advances were not outlawed, no one tried to silence freedom of speech, no one was getting nuked, we were at war with no one. Were bad people in the background trying to cause trouble? Sure. Were their bad people in the Carter Administration trying to cause trouble? Sure. Paul Wolfowitz wanted to use Carter to start World War III in the Middle East. Did it happen? No. In part because Carter lost the eleciton, but in part because Carter himself was basically a decent guy, and had a lot of less evil people working for him. If anything, I thought if you wanted to be non-partisan you could have attacked Carter for FISA, which was an abandonment of the Bill of Rights.
BTW, I have plenty of facts on Reagan. But where's the tactile proof of America being sold down the river, or world war three, or anything like what we've seen with Bush and Clinton. Nobody's perfect. The question is, did evil reign supreme? No, it didn't. Evil hid in the shadows and tried to get its way, and for the most part, failed.
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I get your point, it's side with someone big day, but I think that Brazil is probably plenty big enough. The US can't really invade Venezuela in its current state of losing two wars at once already.
Europe would be another good ally to have. Morales is trying to tie in an alliance with Europe. I think that's a better move. I think there's a fair amount of people out there who just fear america, and so they're siding with the other side.
For environmental disasters, has anyone checked out the Three Gorges Project?
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Interesting article here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15049.htm
Bush Rages: “I am not Beelzebub, Lord of Sulfur”
By Mike Whitney
“The devil is right at home…. The devil himself is right in the house. And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came right here…And it still smells of sulfur today.” Hugo Chavez; address to the UN General Assembly 9-20-06
My oh my, has Hugo Chavez caused a furor. Looking at the news reports filed in the last 24 hours, one would think that he snuck a dirty-bomb into the United Nations rather than gave a speech. In fact, the plucky Chavez may have delivered the finest 30 minute presentation that august assembly has ever heard. In that short span of time he publicly throttled the Global Emperor in front of 6 billion people and left his bruised and bloodied carcass splattered across the canvas like Roberto Duran in Round 9 of the middleweight championship match…..
“No mas, no mas no mas”…
And what about the performance? Is Chavez part of a theatre troupe or is he just earning his chops as a method actor?
Whatever it is; it seems to be working. After skewering Bush as “the devil” and sniffing around for sulfur (the traditional sign of Lucifer) Chavez performed his ablutions with a sign of the cross and an angelic expression worthy of Botticelli.
If you’re a lefty, it just doesn’t get any better than this.
Chavez should give lessons in public speaking. His appearance was like a clap of thunder; waving Chomsky with one hand and pummeling Bush with the other. He managed to heap more muck on “Guantanamo Nation” than anyone since Harold Pinter gave his blistering Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech on 12-7-05. That’s when Pinter said:
“The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have ever talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised quite a clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good. It is a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis.”
Chavez matched Pinter word for word, exposing the hypocrisy, lies and brutality of an administration that never stops lecturing about freedom and liberation even though it grinds out mountains of carnage everywhere it goes.
And where was Bush when Chavez delivered his broadside ….hiding behind Karen Hughes skirts, picking out a new eye-liner for his next televised harangue against Muslims, retrieving his Yale pom-poms from the dry-cleaners?
Our benighted leader always seems to disappear whenever the prospect of danger arises. He skedaddled when his number came up for the Alabama National Guard and he lit-out for the safety of a Nebraska cornfield when the planes hit the towers. He even vamoosed at a trade summit in Argentina when Chavez threatened “to sneak up behind him and give him a bear-hug.” That really put a spring in old Bush’s step as he quickly scuttled to the safety of Airforce One.
One thing is certain, whenever there’s peril, President “gone-to-soon” will be speeding off in a trail of vapor.
In any case, Bush was not missed at the UN massacre yesterday. Chavez held-forth like a preacher at a brothel; scattering the bodies and kicking open the windows to let the sunlight in. He delivered one, ferocious roundhouse punch after another….
Boom, boom, boom…until the crowd rose in a thunderous 5 minute ovation. (which was carefully omitted from the TV coverage)
“What would the people of the world tell (Bush) if they were given the floor?” Chavez asked. “What would they have to say? I have some inkling of what they would say, what the oppressed people think. They would say, ‘Yankee imperialist, go home.”
“He spoke to the people of Lebanon,” Chavez added. “Many of you have seen, he said, how your homes and communities were caught in the crossfire. How cynical can you get? What a capacity to lie shamefacedly. The bombs in Beirut were delivered with laser precision….This is imperialist (and) genocidal; the empire and Israel firing on the p
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BTW, did everyone see that Chomsky's "Hedgemony or Survival" has soared at Amazon since Chavez's speech? It's currently #1 (12:37 PM ET). Anything that gets more people reading more Chomsky has to be a good thing...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/books/a
ll/ref=pd_dp_ts_b_1/104-9855878-9289546
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Bush Claims Not to be Beelzebub, Nation Waits for Proof.
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RE: Propaganda
One thing carefully omitted from US coverage was the APPLAUSE and LAUGHTER that Chavez elicited. Without that feedback, people are shocked... shocked, I tell you!... when someone flies a plane into one of our buildings "How could they do that to us?" people wonder "we're such nice people!". And then they turn into butt-puckered paranoids like Auraptor.
SEESH!!!
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:Try as hard as I might to understand your POV ... I just don't get it.
The question is, did evil reign supreme? No, it didn't. Evil hid in the shadows and tried to get its way, and for the most part, failed.
To recap the Reagan years:
Lebanon- Reagan intervenes in civil war on behalf of Xtian President Gameyal. Seven months later, 260 Marines are dead, 241 in an attack on barracks in Beirut. To take the sting away from an ignominious massacre Reagan then invaded...
Grenada, the smallest independent nation in the Western hemisphere.
Star Wars. The biggest beneficiary was the military-industrial complex
Deficit spending- Reagan promised to cut taxes, boost the military and balance the budget through the use of the appropriately-named Laffer curve. Instead, he racked up a bigger deficit than all previous Presidents combined.
Most serious: Iran- Contra. Selling arms to Iran for hostages (we're talking thousands of TOW missiles, SAMs, etc.) and funneling the money for covert ops in Central America that had been specifically defunded by Congress.
As far as his appointees, there was (see below). These guys are (or were) appointed to the current Bush Administration
Rumsfeld: Special Envoy to the Middle East (indeed)
Armitage: "point man" in Vietnam, "likes to kill", graduated to gun smuggling and drug-running to support covert ops in Afghanistan and Central America. This is the man who just recently told Musharref he would be bombed back into the stone age and who "accidentally" leaked Plame's name to the press. (sure)
Colin Powell: Bypassed normal procurement procedures to get those TOW missiles and other weapons ready for Iran.
Elliot Abrams: Deeply involved in Iran-Contra.
Negroponte: Boosted American military aid to Honduras from $4 to $77 million to fund "death squads".
Poindexter: Also deeply involved in Iran Contra.
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Which get me back to the whole "Bush and Clinton are twins" thing. I just don't see adminstrative overlap between the two. I can't fathom WHY Clinton would throw $$ to Halliburton except that it was off his radar. Did he own stock? (no) Was he trying to gain cooperation from someone? (no) He's a NAFTA guy- an "internationalist". He bought into all kinds of international agreements.
Then you look at Bush's record crafting and advancing trade (or for that matter.. ANY) international agreement. It's dismal. Every international trade negotiation has foundered on farm subsidies. Kyoto- dead. Prohibiting the use of land mines- dead. Geneva Convention- needs "clairification". Aid to Africa- a joke.
So, put your argument on wheels and run that by me again because "It just don't make sense".
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Fav Chavez quote, besides calling Bush "El Diablo":
Quote:
VIDEO DOWNLOAD:
"And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents died, a Cubana de Aviacion airliner. And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government. And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to. I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse. And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists."
-President Hugo Chavez, United Nations Corporation, Fox News, September 2006
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=634200
12&blogID=170652626
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: ABC Nightline - "The deadliest airline bombing in the Western Hemisphere" - A short film about the downing of Cubana Airlines Flight 455 and the death of all 73 on board, and the necessity to extradite the organizer of that terrorist act, Luis Posada Carriles, from the Unites States to Venezuela to stand trial for his crimes. Genocidal serial killer and convicted mass-murdering warcriminal, Communist KGB employee, homosexual rapist of US soldiers, and George Bush Jr's pick to run his 9/11 Commission coverup, Sir Heinz "Henry" Kissenger Knight of the BRITSH Empire claims he is not guilty of this particular mass murder. ABC News proves Kissenger is a pathological liar
http://infowars.net/articles/September2006/220906Carriles.htm
The Bush Crime Family's pardons and criminal federal judges continue to coddle these confessed terrorist bombers in USA today, to protect their boss Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the BRITISH Empire, who was CIA director when Cubana de Aviacion Flight 455 was bombed by CIA employees.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=634200
12&blogID=170652626
Quote:
AND HIS WAS AN EVIL LAUGH
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, heh heh heh, just so long as I'm the dictator, heh heh heh."
-George Bush Jr, convicted drunk driver and AWOL draft deserter, arrested for theft and cocaine, sued for rape and sued for perping the 9/11 terrorist massacres, who performs mock human sacrifice to worship Satan at Bohemian Grove, who ate off Adolf Hitler's Nazi silverware at Yale Skull & Bones, whose grandfather Prescott Bush was arrested and handcuffed 3 times and paid a $750,000 forfeiture under the Trading With The Enemy Act for arming Nazi Germany DURING World War 2 (but Roosevelt's Trading With The Enemy Act actually LICENSED trading with the enemy, so Prescott didn't get the death penalty and was promoted to US Senate)
VIDEO DOWNLOAD:
www.vestigialconscience.com/bush-dictator.mpeg
Here's video of Satanist George Bush Jr worshipping THE DEVIL:
Quote:
Bush Gang and Bill Clinton-Blythe Rockefeller worshipping Molech/Lucifer/Satan at Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio, California on Summer Solstice. Photo copyright Bohemian Club annual yearbook
http://www.lonelantern.org/bohemian_grove.html
VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove
Original full-length version - Infiltration of Jewish Bohemian Grove presidential compound and homosexual nudist colony that performs "mock" human sacrifice to 50-foot-tall idol of Molech - Where Bush Gang and Bill Clinton-Blythe III (Rockefeller) vacation every year to worship Satan and run nekked in the woods with 3,000 homosexual world dictators - Undercover viNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
