We have not forgotten
POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Sunday, September 17, 2006 23:00
VIEWED: 2234
PAGE 2 of 4
dream...truly sorry to hear of any losses to your, friends, family, etc...but to say Bush attacked us is flat out bullshit. Furthermore, by accusing your own President, you ignore the very danger which actually committed this crime. Islamic fascists. Stick your head in the sand all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.
Conspiracy nuts are as dangerous as the Islmaic terrorist, imo.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:So you're sayin' we should send Dreamtrove down to GITMO for some frat hazing? And Pirate News's antics are on a par with beheadings?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Conspiracy nuts are as dangerous as the Islmaic terrorist, imo.
AU, sometimes the rhetoric, she gets away with you.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Auraptor,
As I said, it took five years for me to come to this conclusion, and it took a lot of battering over the head with the facts.
Here's a dose of hard cold reality:
Al Qaeda is real, and is a threat. Sure, I have no problem with that. Saddam Hussein is a bastard, I have no problem with that. Osama bin Laden is the head of Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is mixed up in stuff all the way from the France to China and everywhere in between.
Here's what's not a fact:
"We know who attacked us, and why"
Here's another one:
"There's no chance that it was anyone in our govt."
I had to sit down, litterally for years, and follow this story, every factual detail.
Did Bush plan it? No, he's a moron. I'll bet you a decent chunk of change that whoever did plan it said at some point to Bush "There's going to be an incident, and we need this to happen" and that President or the Vice President said "Okay" or "Do what you have to do" or something like that. I think it's entirely possible that he had no idea what the scale was. But I will bet the farm that someone knows, and that something like this transpired.
I haven't ignored the large international terrorist organization that declared war on the united states back in 1998 that Clinton said "hum de dum" about, and that, quite frankly, I suspect Bush is saying "Hum de dum" about.
I'm just not convinced that they attacked us, as a lone gunmen, on 9-11. In fact, there is no credible definite evidence that says they were even involved.
Quote:
Stick your head in the sand all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.
I'm really not one of those many people on this forum who disagree with everything you say. I was head-in-the-sand for five years before I got it. The conspiracy to attack the WTC could NOT have been carried out without inside help. Go through it from an investigative viewpoint, and there are a lot of people who've made the case a lot better than I can, it just doesn't add up. The official story is pure fantasy at best, and an elaborate cover-up at worst.
Quote:
Conspiracy nuts are as dangerous as the Islmaic terrorist, imo.
Sorry, this is a dumb rhetorical trick, and it's one that both parties have used: my opponents are as bad as the enemy. B^!!$#!+.
You know who's as bad as the enemy? The enemy. That's who.
Here's the question. And I want you to sit back and think about this long and hard. Do you know who the enemy is? Are you ABSOLUTELY 100% sure? Are you willing to stake your life on it?
Because that's the point we're at. What if you, and the 2/3 of the country that agree with you, are wrong? Think about that for a moment. Use your imagination.
I know it's a very serious situation, but I've come to suspect it's very real. I have gone and argued this with people in our own govt., who BTW, fall on both sides of this question. The thing which really began to worry me is that the "Bush et al did it" people can bombard you with tons of evidence to support their case. The "Al Qaeda did it" crowd can't give you jack. Certainly not enough to make a consistent logical story.
I could be wrong. Sure. But it's not as if I started out on this side of the fence and refused to budge. I spent years arguing against this. I bombarded the early conspiracists with emails telling them why I thought they were wrong, and why AL Qaeda was a real threat. Well it is a real threat. And John Karr is a sick sick man, but that doesn't mean he killed Jon Benet Ramsey. Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization, which doesn't mean that they committed, as a sole player, this act of terrorism, or that they even did it at all.
We know nothing. We can only guess. And I've increasingly sure that smart money is on this side of the table. If history's any judge, in 50 years it will come out as a great big scandal. But we need to know if it's true before then. In the absence of any conclusive proof, I feel very comfortable with playing it safe, which means not supporting someone I think might be a traitor and a terrorist.
I honestly don't thin
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Thanks for the backup HK,
I'm really quite sure I'm right about this, as are a good number of the people in our govt., including a decent portion of the senate and house members, and a number of Bush's own former cabinet members.
And these are not guys who believe in UFOs fake moon landings or the pearl harbor-log conspiracy. They might believe the vince foster scenario, as do I.
This is a giant elephant in the room. You can't say this sort of thing without proof, and there will never be CSI-style proof, all the hard evidence was destroyed by the event itself, but it's a case loaded with tons of really convincing circumstantial evidence. So much that it makes Oj's guilt seem iffy by comparison. (it's not iffy)
I really argued for the official story. I batted some emails back and forth with people, and eventually I was forced to gave. The evidence is overwhelmingly on what would generally be called the tinfoil hat side of things. But there's no tinfoil hat on this one. Sure, those ufo nuts have 9-11 conspiracies which they've posted ad nauseum, clouding the field with erroneous junk. probably 90% of whats out there is erroneous junk. Which is why it took me so long to be convinced. But strip it all away and eventually you have to look at what's staring back at you and say "okay, if I were a betting man, which side is this more like to fall on?" And the answer to that, for anyone who has spend enough time on it, is clear. There's no way to carry out these attacks without at least one guy on the inside. If I were playing odds, I'd say it took several guys on the inside, a bundle of bombs, and a sweet window of opportunity. Or two.
The official story is conspiracy theory hogwash in a classic tinfoil hat manner. The fact that the administration sticks to the layout events which are completely impausible, casts a big shadow of suspicion their way. It's possible that they are just immensely stupid, and are being played by a conspirator in their ranks. It's very possible. But I'm placing my wager, and I'd say odd are at least better than even that at least the VP was aware that it was done.
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Quote:
America was attacked. Every single one of us. Playing partisan politics only allows the enemy more room to roam, and distracts us from doing what is needed to defeat those animals.
Pot to Kettle, Pot to Kettle, you are black, over.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
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We know who the enemey is,and why they hit us. They've said as much , time and time again. Problem is, we don't listen. That is to say, we don't pay attention to them. Too many think .. " Naww, they don't REALLY feel that way. Those Islamo-nuts are just acting boastful, sounding off. That's not what they REALLY feel. "
The hell isn't. Now, when Kim Jong-Il says that N.Korea could fire it's rockets and burn LA, NY , etc..to the ground, ya take notice...but you know it'll never happen. He's being cocky ( and nuts ) because he knows CHina has his back. He's just talkin' shit. Not so w/ al Qaeda/ Islamo-nutcase types.
Opponents ARE as bad as this enemy, and I'll tell you way. We're fighting TERRORISTS. Not a giant standing military forcde, but a bunch of nuts who love death more than we love life ( or so they hope ) Their main weapon IS 'terror'. And part of their goal is to what ?. Get people to distrust their Gov't. When conspiracy whackos start off w/ wild ass rumors that aren't ever substantiated, they're DOING TYHE VERY JOB OF THE TERRORISTS FOR THEM!
Sorry, I'm not wasting any more time on this.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Those Islamo-nuts are just acting boastful, sounding off. That's not what they REALLY feel.
Auraptor,
Oh, it's absolutely what they feel. I think you don't get where I'm coming from. Or where any of these people who say this sort of thing are coming from.
I'm not your enemy, or even your opponent. Just a guy with his ear to the ground. I think that's Denial, and possibly Anger.
Quote:
Get people to distrust their Gov't. When conspiracy whackos start off w/ wild ass rumors that aren't ever substantiated, they're DOING TYHE VERY JOB OF THE TERRORISTS FOR THEM!
I just wanted to say, I think this is nuts.
BTW, I think you're probably right about Kim Jong Il, but I'd hate to bet my life on it.
Enjoy president Hillary, because that's what this insanity is actually creating. In the real world, Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda are not about to burst down your door, whether we do anything or not. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever. It's way out of their capability. But president Hillary is a very real possibility. All that she really needs is everyone to believe republicans are loonytunes.
And, quite frankly, looking at this hogwash rhetoric and the actions that go with it, even if Bush weren't a terrorist, I think a trained monkey could come to that conclusion.
And, as a bonus, we've really upped Al Qaeda recruitment, and lost a war in Afghanistan. This means there's a nation out there which really really hates us. (The Taliban were pretty bad, but they didn't really hate us.)
Rrrr. Just at a loss for words. This is just so far in the wrong direction. You do know that these neocons are not conservatives right? If they dished out horse$#!+, would you eat it? Cause that's what they're serving.
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They attacked us in '93 and in '01. They really really hated us long before we went into Afghanistan. I don't care how much 'more' they hate us, it's irrelevent. We must kill them. That's the only way to win.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote::hangs head: WTF? Where do you get this, excuse me, nonesense? The goal of terrorism is to make the enemy distrust their government? It's clear that you actually believe that's what's going on in this country, but has that EVER happened anywhere else on earth in the history of the world???
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And part of their goal is to what ?. Get people to distrust their Gov't.
How about this: it's the goal of fascists to criminalize dissent.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:Quote::hangs head: WTF? Where do you get this, excuse me, nonesense? The goal of terrorism is to make the enemy distrust their government? It's clear that you actually believe that's what's going on in this country, but has that EVER happened anywhere else on earth in the history of the world???
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And part of their goal is to what ?. Get people to distrust their Gov't.
How about this: it's the goal of fascists to criminalize dissent.
.
How many times are you going to take my words and twist them. Take into account what the topic is, and what I'm talking about. Per the TERRORISTS, it's their goal to destablilize the Gov't for their own benefit. We'll agree that there's much w/ the US Gov't that needs fixing, and we'll deal w/ that stuff. But to say we weren't attacked by who we were attacked by, and then claim it was the Gov't who was behind all this, is utter nonsense. That is playing into the Islamists hands. The threat is real because tyey're not threatening to attack us, they've promised to.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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