Open war - a poll
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Thursday, September 21, 2006 22:20
VIEWED: 3929
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Okay, this is my 9.11 thread.
The short of it, I was drawing a sketch, and someone came in and said "you've gotta see this." I did the unity thing.
A year later, I showed up at the first aniversary with candles, as did everyone else, even though it was not announced. Spontaneous and beautiful, some girl sung that sarah mclaughlin song "angel" acapella with the unmodified words.
Now time has passed, 5 years, and I have to ask. Who does it serve? Unity has become blind support for the radical agenda. You want to feel something? feel anger. Someone has used this as a devisive tool to insight violence, and it is the same people who perpetrated that initial violence. Who ever that is, virtually everyone see that the escalation of further violence was at least part of the goal, as it is with any act of war.
So, here's the question.
Who do you blame?
I've selected out the list of all the possible, plausible parties who might have been responsible in the various combinations that I've heard:
1. Osama bin Laden conspired with Al Qaeda to attack America from outside, and had no help from within the united states.
2. Osama bin Laden conspired with members of Al Qaeda, include al qaeda operatives with no connection to the US govt. but were american citizens inside the united states other than the famed 9-11 hijackers.
3. Osama bin Laden and members of Al Qaeda both outside and in the United States included al qaeda operatives who had infiltrated the US govt attacked America, and cleared the way for the attack.
4. Osama bin Laden and members of Al Qaeda attacked America, and were unbeknownst to them, aided by silent partners from within the US govt. who saw political advantage in allowing the attacks to occur.
5. Muslim terrorists with no direct connection to Osama bin Laden attacked America, and were aided by silent partners within our own govt.
6. Members within the US govt. deliberately conspired with Al Qaeda and/or Osama bin Laden to orchestrate the attacks.
7. Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda had no part in the attacks, which were planned and executed from within the united states with the use of either gullible terrorists or remote control devices.
8. Other, someone who was not Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda, or a member of the US govt. planned the September 11th attacks.
Without attacking one another, if we can, just to throw this out here. I think that a lot of people have probably looked pretty far into this topic, and have an opinion, or a hunch.
If we blame different people, and I'm sure we do, then the focus of our anger will be different. Much of the other political debate becomes somewhat moot. For example, what does it matter if the US controls Afganistan if there is no connection to 9/11?
Myself I'll take a wide sweep and say that my choice would be at least 3 and no higher than 7. Somewhere in that range. Probably 4 or 5, but not locked in to those two.
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I dont believe that there was a deliberate conspiracy within our (U.S and U.K. ) governments to actually perpetrate the 9/11 attacks. I do believe, however that our governments probably knew that the attacks were going to happen and chose to do nothing about it in order to further a long term goal: the war on terror, which enables them (our leaders, left and right) to say "hey look, we have to remain in charge to protect you from these evil people, and by the way, we also have to take away certain of your own freedoms so we can do that job more efficiently".
As to who actually perpetrated the attacks, it was probably members of a loose coalition of terrorist groups who managed to get their act together for once and took advantage of lax airport and air-space security; basically things went their way on the day. These groups did'nt become known as Al-Qaeida untill after 9/11.
So, now, five years later we have a common enemy for our leaders (left and right, it does'nt matter) to wave a stick at and reasons for our leaders to use that same stick to beat Joe Public with.
But as long as there is plenty of good stuff on TV everything is OK.
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DT -
You left out a couple.
9. The Israelis did it to harden US opinion against the Palestinians.
10. The unconscious collective psyche of millions of conspiracy theorists, tired of endlessly rehashing the Kennedy assassination and the 'fake' moon landings, overpowers the minds of a random group of Muslims and causes them to plot the 9/11 attack, thereby giving the conspiracy theory world nearly endless new ground to cover.
Myself, I think it was #1, with a slight possibility of #2.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:Of the choices, I go with this.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
2. Osama bin Laden conspired with members of Al Qaeda, include al qaeda operatives with no connection to the US govt. but were american citizens inside the united states other than the famed 9-11 hijackers.
I love conspiracy theories, but sheer corporate style government ineptness and confusion accounts for most of it on our side of the pond for me.
Sure, they had cells in place, and certain U.S. higher-ups might have really known what was probably coming, but nothing you could call a 'grand plan'.
That's my story Chrisisall
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Geezer, #8 covers all alternatives, I've heard two to date, one is mossad, which is a favorite in europe, and I'd guess has fair popularity in the ME, and the other was democrats and republicans who weren't the administration but had an interest in passing the patriot act.
I gave geezer a 1.2 and I think oed was a 4, as was i, so with chris' 2 that that makes us 11.2/4 or 2.8.
So far.
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Quote:Yeah but they cancelled firefly.
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
But as long as there is plenty of good stuff on TV everything is OK.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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I don't think there's any sort of active collusion on the part of the U.S. government and Al-Qaeda (at least I hope there's not), but I can certainly envision our government standing passively by and allowing the attacks to occur in order to launch the "War on Terror." After all, it's a big money maker for the military-industrial complex.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell
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First of all it wasn't Al Qaeda. Al had nothing to do with it. It was his brother, Richard Qaeda, thats been causing all this trouble.
So, with that one amendment, my vote is 1.
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1
And certainly nothing past 2.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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I would have to go with 1 or 2. It's not that I think the government is above doing these things, but to inept to do them and keep it quiet.
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