Position reversal
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:16
VIEWED: 2267
PAGE 1 of 3
Okay, I confess I gave Senator Allen the benefit of the doubt, and was wrong.
According to a wikipeida entry after the event, 'macaca' is a Tunisian ethnic slur. Since Sen. Allen is of Tunisian decent, it's an issue.
Can anyone verify this with an earlier date?
I would like to see some reference to the term prior to the incident to be sure, but it's looking bad for Sen. Allen.
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"Let's give a welcome to Macaca here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia."
Dreamtrove, there is no doubt in my mind that he knew what he was saying was insulting and derogatory.
I do not have a date for you, but I have consulted several friends in the UK from India, Pakistan and Tunisia and they all agree that it is the equivalent of the N word.
edit: excellent editorial http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006
/08/20/EDG0SJ799L1.DTL
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okay, so far, I've been search indexes of racial slurs used in africa pre-allen slur.
Objectively, it's looking bad for the allen-is-a-racist crowd. I found a 'Makwerekwere' used in South Africa, meaning 'barbarian' but someone has to get that ina distorted form up to tunisia. It shouldn't be more known to paksitanis if it's anti-negro. No one claimed it was anti-pakistani. I think that there's a real possibility that Allen was set up here. I'm finding nothing on pre-Allen references to it's use in tunisia, which is what the wikipedia articles.
There's a saying in Tennessee, at least there's a saying in Texas, and I think there's a saying
Fool me once... well... shame on you... fool me twice... uh... can't get fooled again.
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Dreamtrove,
I have found that in Europe and certainly the UK, those of Indian and or Pakistan origin are considered "black". They would certainly be sensitive to such ephithets.
FYI - I seem to remember hearing French friends calling a Morrocan a Makak. I believe it is a form of macaque or macaca.
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Hmm.
I'm losing convincedness as I search. I went to an online epithet dictionary which didn't have any variation. A macaques is a monkey, but I unless pakistanis spend a fair amount of time in africa, they won't be running into it.
I think I have to back down on this one. It seems entirely likely, even if such a term exists somewhere, that the whole thing was a prank played on Allen by the man in question, who was, after all, spying on the campaign. Someone tells allen, allen falls for it. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed. But the claim, the specific claim, in 500 wikipedia entries is that it was a tunisian ethnic slur prior to the incident, something I can find no reference to. Any one can create wikipedia entries, including the perpetrator of the hoax, if it is indeed a hoax. And if it is, the perp has to go down every bit as far as allen. Not just the event, but inventing an ethnic slur? I think that a head is going to roll, I'm just not sure whose yet.
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I, being from Tunisia, will weigh in on this. It is an ethic slur only in the way it's said and the mindset of the receiver. It's the equivalent of a Croatian looking at a Serbian and saying..."YOU SERB!"....If the Serbian is safe in his own skin..He may say "Yes I am thank you for noticing"..If he is a little touchy ..He may take it as being talked down to. What it is not, is the Nig*r equivalent. A lot depends on connotation as well as contention.
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Dreamtrove
The man pointed out the only ethnic looking person in the room and used a derogatory term and "welcomed him to America" that in itself is insulting and racially biased.
Whether or not he knew the term Macaca was an epithet or whether or not he thought he and his people "made it up". Its intention was still derogatory. The entire statement was insulting.
Since it was widely reported and witnessed by many, I don't think the "lone American of Indian descent" was "setting" the Allen up.
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Kaneman
and here I thought you was a "good ole boy"
PS - psst - are you stalking me? cause its freaking me out! 
Back on topic - epithets are in the mind of the receiver. The word means whatever they perceive it to mean.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
"Let's give a welcome to Macaca here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia."
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I think the "Welcome to America..." bit is being taken out of context a bit. Prior to this bite, Allen mentions that his opponent is hanging out with Hollywood movie mogulsand staying inside the Beltway, unlike Allen, who has been out in Virginia. He then welcomes his opponent's man to the "real world" where Allen's campaign takes place.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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RICHMOND, Aug. 14 -- Virginia Sen. George Allen (R) apologized Monday for what his opponent's campaign said were demeaning and insensitive comments the senator made to a 20-year-old volunteer of Indian descent.
At a campaign rally in southwest Virginia on Friday, Allen repeatedly called a volunteer for Democrat James Webb "macaca." During the speech in Breaks, near the Kentucky border, Allen began by saying that he was "going to run this campaign on positive, constructive ideas" and then pointed at S.R. Sidarth in the crowd.
"This fellow here, over here with the yellow shirt, macaca, or whatever his name is. He's with my opponent. He's following us around everywhere. And it's just great," Allen said, as his supporters began to laugh. After saying that Webb was raising money in California with a "bunch of Hollywood movie moguls," Allen said, "Let's give a welcome to macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia." Allen then began talking about the "war on terror."
Yes he was discussing Webb in California, I don't think though that the "Welcome to America" is out of context. He could have easily said "Welcome to the real world" to make the point that it was not LALA land.
Instead he points to the only (according to reports - I have not seen footage) non WASP looking person in the room.
edited to add one more thought - lets stipulate that Macaca only means monkey - for the moment. Go into a racially mixed arena - walk up to a black man and call him monkey. Is that a racial slur? Would it be tolerated?
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