River vs. Buffy, who do you think win?
POSTED BY: fireflycv63
UPDATED: Friday, August 25, 2006 03:11
VIEWED: 17734
PAGE 3 of 7
Buffy, unless River were really fighting for something. Buffy may not have the training but she's got super-strength and can take way more of a beating than River.
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Ok, i wanted to put my two cents in.
First of all, Buffy has strength on her side. While most Martial arts will tell you that strength is beaten by technique, there are a few caveats to that arguement.
First, there is a reason martial artists fight in weight classes. even in the UFC or Muay Thai fights, you tend to fight people of you size, because that makes your strengths comparable. I have trained for a while, but will all that training, i could not beat my friend who is less trained but far larger than myself. His strength means he needs to have only a few successful shots before he wins. We really don't see river taking many hits, so there is no way to judge her chin. Edge: Buffy.
Secondly, River does have the psychic thing. There are two things that bug me though. A well trained fighter doesn't have to think about a move, their bodies simply know how to act. Buffy did train a lot. I don't understand why people say otherwise. She trained to kick knives out of the air in front of her. or catch arrows. I can say for a fact that catching arrows from a compound bow or cross bow is IMPOSSIBLE for a human to do, so point buffy on that. However, even if river could read the mind and respond, that doesn't mean she blocks well. If you are facing a incredibly fast opponent, you may know what is coming but not be fast enough to do it. Sometimes you know what is coming and can't do anything but brace for a hit. Even so, i have sparred against people stronger than i in a muay thai fight and can say that there are situations where blocking hurts, and over the course of a fight, blocking becomes almost as bad as taking the hit, because of the pain. Edge: Even.
River does have better training than buffy though. Sadly, we don't know how river fights in a solo situation. As Andre The Giant told us in The Princess Bride, you use different moves when you are fighting half a dozen people.
I love river guys. I like her more than i like buffy, but i might have to give Buffy this one.
Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoë: You live on a spaceship, dear.
Wash: So?
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you're all stupid. course river would win. stuff buffys 'super human strength.' one: river is a ship two: mind powers anyone? and three:...i've run out but still, river could whip buffy with her eyes closed. go river!
Objects in space- Simon: I'm a doctor and my sister is a ship. We had a strange childhood...
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Good Thread...these things are always enjoyable. While Buffy is enhanced and all that Jazz, I am going to have to pull for River. While being a "reader" is important, it is not the real reason why I think she would win. While Buffy is increadibly durable, and does well in one on one fights, River is a force of nature like a tornado or earthquake. When she goes off, be somewhere else. River is a killing "machine"...I stress machine here. Buffy may fight the undead and all sorts of super natural characters but she would have died in that room with the reavers...a very unpleasant and llllloooooonnnnngggggg death with all the innapropriate events occuring. I am suprised that everyone is focusing on the mind reading powers of River...what about here super freak brain before it got messed with. The ability for her to adapt and take out rooms like I take out the trash may have very little to do with her "reading" ability and more with her ability to anything. Buffy always seems like she fights guys who are too busy running up, looking cool, and getting slapped away.
While we have only gotten a taste of River, everybody assumes that she is fluid in her style of fighting. However, being a "Dyed in wool killer, clean, cold, and methodical." (Thanks Gary) I see River having no qualms about throttling Buffy's chest and jamming her thumbs through the back of her skull.
Speaking of Gary O, what about a fight between Leeloo, Buffy, and River.
Main Event: Lee "the fighting 5th Element" Loo, River "Master of the 'verse" Tam, and Buffy "I wish I had a clue" Summers.
This is a list of characters without unatural physical power who may possibly be able to take Tam down.
1- Brock Samson - Swedish Murder Machine
2- Batman (used to fighting multiple eneimies, gadjets, and ballistic armor)
3- Marv from Sin City- Mickey Rourke can take punishment anyways.
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Just to be contrary, I'm going to argue for the mighty Buffster.
First, as has been pointed out, Buffy is a brawler while River has elegant technique. If we've learned anything from television--and we have--we know that brawlers always win over people with better technique. I mean, look at Shindig--as my friend the fencing master commented, "Just once, I'd like to see the expert swordsman win, like would happen in the real world." But that never does happen on television, which is where both characters exist. Thus, Buffy the brawler wins.
Second, I want to refute the arguments based on claims that River has made about her powers. Sure, River said, "I can kill you with my brain." But she was addressing Jayne, not Buffy, so we can't take that as evidence that she can kill anyone other than Jayne with her brain. For all we know, she meant, "I can outsmart you, leaving you in a pile of your own blood, because you look good in red."
And yes, River said, "No power in the 'verse can stop me." The important term here is "'verse," which refers to the Firefly universe. Buffy, being from the Buffyverse, is by definition excluded from that statement.
Third, River might pull a gun on Buffy. Whether that would work is doubtful; I suspect it would simply lead to the death of another much-loved Scooby gang member. (No! Not Willow! Take Dawn instead!)
Fourth, River would no doubt win in an initial fight, but Buffy would keep coming back. During the showdown in the last 15 minutes of the season finale, Willow would hack into the Alliance mainframe, and Xander or Giles would rush to Buffy's rescue with the right magic words to put River to sleep.
A reflection: I'd bet my money on the crew of Serenity over the Scooby gang any day. Guns, guns, guns.
A further reflection: If this fight is on pay-per-view, it will probably involve jello, hot oil, and/or ripped-up bikinis. It will cost more than $3.99, and I'll watch it from my bunk.
With tongue firmly in cheek,
Cedric
"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
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Let's get if from Joss himself:
There was an interview with Australian television or something in which Joss was asked this question. He hemmed a little bit and said he'd been asked this before and here's what he thinks:
The fight would be well-matched but in the end Buffy would win because she has super-powers. Except then Jayne would hit her in the head with a frying pan.
That's exactly what he said :) I just don't know how to paste the source in here (if anyone has more time and wants to google it, go ahead). I thought he came up with a very nice compromise :)
Cheers, Amylisai
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Quote:
Originally posted by amylisai:
Let's get if from Joss himself:
The fight would be well-matched but in the end Buffy would win because she has super-powers. Except then Jayne would hit her in the head with a frying pan.
So...It would appear that the real answer to the question of who would win, River VS. Buffy, is Jayne.
MRS
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I think everyone here that is talking about River's Psychic abilities is missing a crutial factor:
We don't know the extent of her abilities.
If we take it from the series, we don't even know if she is psychic or just extrememly intuitive.
Also, and more importantly, in the series, she never showed the ability to actively read peoples minds. In fact, when ever she did do a stabby stabby, it was with the element of surprise. So, no mind reading necessary.
If we take it from the movie, again we don't know the extent of her abilites.
She as well, as not shown the ability to actively read minds.
In the end fight scene, she does kick ass, but that isn't necessarily the result of mind reading. Anyone that has taken martial arts seriously will know that to every fight there is a flow. If you obey and use the flow, you do well. If you fight the flow, you don't do well.
River has only demonstrated the ability to follow the flow really really well.
Now onto the Buffy vs River debate.
Everyone remember the uber Vamp? How about Buffy going against a God and winning? Or...
Buffy has superior physical abilities as well as superior experience.
Given that River is just a human and Buffy has been endowed with super powers, given the above, Buffy would certainly win.
----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki
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River would read Buffy's mind and know every move she was going to make- and as gifted as Buffy is, River is unbeatable, if triggered.
"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... This Land."
"I think we should call it YOUR GRAVE!"
"Curse you, sudden yet inevitable betrayal."
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