Real World Event Discussions

Evolution Held Hostage

POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Monday, August 21, 2006 21:25
VIEWED: 5944
PAGE 5 of 6

YINYANG

Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:38 AM

I don't know if this has been officially decided, but someone mentioned that the proper procedure for handling trolls was this:

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ANTIMASON

Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:25 AM

seventypercent-- im not sure why you are arguing with me then if you are a believer? did i say the earth was only 6k years old? did i say that Satan encompasses all the mythical deities? i didnt

first off, what im saying is that if you believe God exists, then you better believe Lucifer does aswell, and the Bible says that the world is of him, and that he has dark forces and rulers working on his behalf. so to deny the occult evidence, is to deny that anything at all is happening by intent; and thats contrary to the Bible

what i am expressing to you is that God, if youll admit he exists, specifically chose Abraham, and Israel for a reason, which was to bring about the law, and the belief in a single all powerfull God. God chose a people to maintain his beliefs, the Jews, and later Jesus was born, and as a fullfillment of the jewish law, is Mans redeemer.

in the very beginning of the bible, why did God send the flood? in Genesis it says God sent it because prior to the Law(or the ten commandments), the earth was immoral and chaotic. in Gen 6 it says that the fallen angels that led Man astray, teaching him knowledge beyond his maturity..ie the multiple pagan dieties

think about the Bible for a second..why would any of this business with the Jews and Jesus have been neccessary if Man were perfectly capable on his own to find a moral equilibrium? would God have sacrificed his own "son"? Jesus wouldnt have said "no man gets to the Father, but through me" if it werent a crucial part of the doctrine

there is a fundemental point that we are trying to get acrossed to the world, which is to be a christian is to conform to the likeness of Jesus. there is nothing selfish or impure about him...which is also why he says "if you knew me, you would know my Father", since he speaks and acts on the Creators behalf. what kind of person cannot relate to Jesus, honostly?? someone who cannot relate to God; thats the whole purpose of God manifest in the flesh, otherwise how would we know what a perfect being would expect from us.

if you are a Christian, then how could you possibly claim that Man never needed Gods word on earth? that is contradictory to the entire message of the bible

unless you dont believe God exists

SEVENPERCENT

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
seventypercent--

It's not seventypercent, it's Sevenpercent - It's a firefly reference, not an independent number.

Quote:
im not sure why you are arguing with me then if you are a believer?

Because you used this forum to launch an attack on science, and have never come back to answer any question I posited to you. You said that technology was bad, and it has caused problems (like created diseases), and that religion was the answer. I asked you to prove that tech was bad, because I - as a believer - don't think it is. You never came back to the questions in my initial post, you kept changing the subject slightly to avoid them. I'm arguing with you because I think you are a fundie, and I think fundies are generally idiots and fanatics, and am waiting for you to prove otherwise.

Quote:
did i say the earth was only 6k years old? did i say that Satan encompasses all the mythical deities? i didnt

Are you a believer in the literal word of God? Then you believe the world is 6k years old. I'm not sure where the hell "Satan as everygod" came from, but I'm not going to try to find out, either.

Quote:
first off, what im saying is that if you believe God exists, then you better believe Lucifer does aswell, and the Bible says that the world is of him, and that he has dark forces and rulers working on his behalf

Only if you believe in the Bible as the end-all-be-all literal word of history and God do you have to believe those things.

Quote:
so to deny the occult evidence, is to deny that anything at all is happening by intent; and thats contrary to the Bible

What evidence? You have to have multiple sources to claim evidence of that nature - you can't just say "the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true." That's faulty logic.

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what i am expressing to you is that God, if youll admit he exists,

I will.

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specifically chose Abraham, and Israel for a reason, which was to bring about the law, and the belief in a single all powerfull God. God chose a people to maintain his beliefs, the Jews, and later Jesus was born, and as a fullfillment of the jewish law, is Mans redeemer.

Which may or may not be a metaphor.

Quote:
think about the Bible for a second

I can't not, with you in this thread.

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there is a fundemental point that we are trying to get acrossed to the world, which is to be a christian is to conform to the likeness of Jesus. there is nothing selfish or impure about him

Is your reading comprehension THAT bad? I am in agreement with this. Yet, evangelical Christians believe that what they are doing is in the likeness of Jesus and in Jesus' name. I dared you last post to denounce them all. I double dare oyu in this one. Bet you won't do it. Start with Bush, the Dominionists, work your way through Robertson, Falwell, and the rest, on into the megachurches, Ralph Reed, and all the rest. Because your argument denounces science and defends them while at the same time saying most people aren't good Christians for the reasons those people aren't good Christians.

what kind of person cannot relate to Jesus, honostly??

I dunno - most conservatives?

Quote:
if you are a Christian, then how could you possibly claim that Man never needed Gods word on earth? that is contradictory to the entire message of the bible

I, as a Christian, believe man needs God's word on earth as a teacher of the way. The spiritual way. But you can act in a Christian manner without needing a spiritual mentor. Tell me, Anti, who is the better person - the man who accepts Jesus as the savior, then kicks poor people and bombs his neighbor (then asks for forgiveness every week); or the scientific atheist, who genetically modifies crops so that all may eat, as well as works to cure disease so that all may live without pain (who never asks for anything in return? I know who I think it is, but from your posts I'm not sure who you'd say.

Quote:
unless

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DREAMTROVE

Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:36 PM

Let me butt in, or well, too late, I'm already here

Quote:
7%: It's not seventypercent, it's Sevenpercent - It's a firefly reference, not an independent number.

lol. I actually always thought it was a sherlock holmes reference.

Quote:
7%: Because you used this forum to launch an attack on science, and have never come back to answer any question I posited to you. You said that technology was bad, and it has caused problems (like created diseases), and that religion was the answer. I asked you to prove that tech was bad, because I - as a believer - don't think it is. You never came back to the questions in my initial post, you kept changing the subject slightly to avoid them. I'm arguing with you because I think you are a fundie, and I think fundies are generally idiots and fanatics, and am waiting for you to prove otherwise.

I kind of like antimason. That's an extreme position, anti-science. I'm somewhat wary of science, like atomic bombs, etc., but I think common sense needs to be applied. You don't need ultrasounds (this one occurred to me instantly as a problem when it appeared) or personal nuclear generators, but genetic engineering, chemistry, etc., are just forms of creation. But it's an odd position to have on an sf forum.

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7%: Are you a believer in the literal word of God? Then you believe the world is 6k years old. I'm not sure where the hell "Satan as everygod" came from, but I'm not going to try to find out, either.

7% i don't think this is so. The bible doesn't say 'and so it is written, the earth is 6kyo.' some looney biblical scholar invented that from counting begats.

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7%: What evidence? You have to have multiple sources to claim evidence of that nature - you can't just say "the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true." That's faulty logic.

Lol. I think this was the steven colbert position.

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antimason:
specifically chose Abraham, and Israel for a reason, which was to bring about the law, and the belief in a single all powerfull God. God chose a people to maintain his beliefs, the Jews, and later Jesus was born, and as a fullfillment of the jewish law, is Mans redeemer.
7%: Which may or may not be a metaphor.

Law is evil.

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antimason: think about the Bible for a second
7%: I can't not, with you in this thread.

break it up

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antimason: to be a christian is to conform to the likeness of Jesus.
Quote:

Woah, blonde earth coming up.

Quote:
7%: Is your reading comprehension THAT bad? I am in agreement with this. Yet, evangelical Christians believe that what they are doing is in the likeness of Jesus and in Jesus' name. I dared you last post to denounce them all. I double dare oyu in this one. Bet you won't do it. Start with Bush, the Dominionists, work your way through Robertson, Falwell, and the rest, on into the megachurches, Ralph Reed, and all the rest.

You really nailed it.

Quote:
antimason: if you are a Christian, then how could you possibly claim that Man never needed Gods word on earth? that is contradictory to the entire message of the bible

I have an idea. I've said it already, but here it is again. What if someone believes in Jesus, but not in God yhwh, whatever. There are people in India who worship a muslim and don't believe in allah. I follow the teachings of Lao Tse, but I don't get a bonus deity. There's a pit of a baradox in christianity (or even a bit of a paradox) which is that to buy into the beliefs of the great peacemaker, you have to take all of the prophets before him, plus worship the God of War. Doesn't this strike someone as inconsistant? How about a new religion, Chist-only-ianity. Follow Jesus, and maybe what came after but *not* worship the god of war?

I, as a Christian, believe man needs God's word on earth as a teacher of the way. The spiritual way. But you can act in a Christian manner without needing a spiritual mentor. Tell me, Anti, who is the better person - the man who

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RUE

Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:05 PM

I always enjoy the funny stuff!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
lol. threadbump.

If two combatants have a threadbumping exchange which continues, then it's a threadmire.

YINYANG

Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:29 PM

Dreamtrove: Lol. You're one of my (many) new favorite heroes.

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ANTIMASON

Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:55 PM

Sevenpercent= i never said i was against science

to answer your question about technology, i dont neccessarily believe its evil, but i dont think its being applied properly either.

for example= am i denying that modern medical science has its benefits? no.. but do i think drugs that medical industries push do more harm than good. wouldnt preventitive care, like a healthy deit and living habits do more for us?

it seems to me that Man has always had everything he needed from the first day of creation; does that mean i dont accept that God gave us a brain and intelligence for reason? no, but in what way is technology bridging the crucial gaps of society?

genetically modified food? whats wrong with natural, God grown food? we wouldnt have hunger problems if corrupt people werent creating these situations. and thats how i feel about most technology..i think its useful if its used right, but human nature has proven to mismanage it..and in that case i think its become a burden in many ways.

i dont hate science..its good for us to know how the world and its laws operate. but i believe God gives us equal truths aswell. and i do believe mind over matter..because Jesus said that we too could walk on water if we only had faith; and i think that will be part of our redemption.

and ultimately, it will just inslave us.

YINYANG

Friday, August 18, 2006 12:20 AM

Quote:
Sevenpercent= i never said i was against science

to answer your question about technology, i dont neccessarily believe its evil, but i dont think its being applied properly either.

for example= am i denying that modern medical science has its benefits? no.. but do i think drugs that medical industries push do more harm than good. wouldnt preventitive care, like a healthy deit and living habits do more for us?

it seems to me that Man has always had everything he needed from the first day of creation; does that mean i dont accept that God gave us a brain and intelligence for reason? no, but in what way is technology bridging the crucial gaps of society?

genetically modified food? whats wrong with natural, God grown food? we wouldnt have hunger problems if corrupt people werent creating these situations. and thats how i feel about most technology..i think its useful if its used right, but human nature has proven to mismanage it..and in that case i think its become a burden in many ways.

i dont hate science..its good for us to know how the world and its laws operate. but i believe God gives us equal truths aswell. and i do believe mind over matter..because Jesus said that we too could walk on water if we only had faith; and i think that will be part of our redemption.

and ultimately, it will just inslave us.

Disclaimer: These are all my opinions. Feel free to educate me if I'm wrong (but don't try to convert me); but, this is what I think.

I've had this urge to jump in somewhere, and here's as good a place as any.

Point one: I don't necessarily believe that religion is evil; but, I don't think it's being applied properly, either. And that goes for all religions.

Point two: Yes, of course preventive care would do better. Do people want to seek out preventive care? Some: yes; others, no. The drug push is as much the consumer's fault as it is the manufacturer.

Point three: I'm confused. What do you mean by 'crucial gaps'?

Point four: God's a farmer? Weird...

We also wouldn't have hunger problems if other people's government officials weren't in the way (think North Korea). Hunger issues have more to do with distribution than farming, anyway.

Again, taking your sentance and inserting my own choice words -

I think it's (religion) useful if it's used right, but human nature has proven to mismanage it; and, in that case, I think it's become a burden in many ways.

Point five: Do you have faith? It seems to me that you do. Can you walk on water?

Point six: Religion has already enslaved people, and set them against, among other things, 1) common sense, 2) science, and 3) for some, compassion.

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SEVENPERCENT

Friday, August 18, 2006 12:56 AM

DT - Babydoll- You know I love ya, but brother, learn how to use the quote tags!

For Antimason's sake (and DT's - good catch on the "seven percent solution" from SACD's SH), it's Seven Percent: the amount of money Jayne was working for before Mal convinced him to switch sides in the ep OOG.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamtrove:
You really nailed it.

I know. I'm good like that.

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"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

ANTIMASON

Sunday, August 20, 2006 5:51 PM

Yin-Yang--- ill agree aswell, religions have been mismanaged, but why? i suspect our answeres will differ. i believe mans nature is inherintly rebellious and defiant, and is susceptible to Satan and his fallen angels, which are the current rulers of the world(spiritually).

example- the Catholic church: it was Gods representitive on earth, so naturally it would come under the attack of forces seeking to pervert and skew its teachings; holy wars, conquests, secrets and diception..those are not doctrines taught in the Bible, but are divisive concepts introduced, according to the Bible, by Satan.

by "crucial gaps", ill give you another example; famine and poverty, starvation, apathy, fascism, racism and bigotry, hate, environmental degredation...i know those sound vague, but you get my drift. how does science or technology help to change someones mentality from the inside? God made us stewards over all his creation, and we have a responsibility to represent Gods will, which is all loving; he expects the best of us, and to grow spiritually is all we can do to affect positive change.