Evolution Held Hostage

POSTED BY: misbehaven
UPDATED: Monday, August 21, 2006 21:25
VIEWED: 5944
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ANTIMASON

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Antimason,

I don't think Bush really believes, I'm not sure Hilter did, (Stalin and Mao were atheists) but they base their actions on biblical precedent, and it's a book chock full of bad ideas. It's like, America worked for a long time because the founding fathers had good ideas, you fall back on those, you're okay.

I have no problem with the concept of God, but with the political precedent of the bible, which would think that OBL and GWB were just what the deity ordered.

BTW, I'm not convinced Pat Robertson is a believer, I suspect he's a hired gun of the neocon machine, and always has been.

Dreamtrove-- i agree with you, but for slightly different reasons.

ill agree, there is a Biblical precedent in the world...i dont believe it is being followed though.

the thing about Hitler, and Bush, which can be proven, is there connections to secret societies and the occult. Hitler was a member of the Thule Gesellschaft, and Bush was a member of Skull and Bones; both were known as the "order of death", both affiliated with eachother from across the Atlantic. now..no one will Deny the influence the Nazis had on the world..i credit that effectiveness to their occult doctrines, because i believe there are dark forces, which can be harnessed

Freemasonry, it can now be proven, is an occult, Luciferian organization. Masonry was respected in America, until the 1820-30's when the Citizens got a true glimpse at the foundation and nature of Masonry; at which point they became persecuted and were forced under ground! when they reappeared later in the century, they had formed an outer layer, a visible layer, with diceptive and half true philosophies, to provide a front for the public to once again regain trust

i believe Americas destiny was the final battleground of good and evil, and is the reason America becomes Mystery Babylon of Revelation. we were founded on the principles of religious freedom, but were a majority of protestants and christians from the beginning. at the same time, Freemasonry, and other occult influences have been present aswell; that is the other side of the coin was, as evidence by the all-seeing eye and other Luciferian symbolism. we are the richest Christian nation in history, yet we are considered the great Satan by the rest of the world. its as if there is an inherent dichotomy, that has always existed, between God and Satan, and they are battling for America

i would argue that the "bad ideas" of the Bible, are not brought through God, but through defiance of God..most noticably, Idolatry and occult worship. for example...Israel, of which the whole OT is based, became so submersed in Pagan worship(occult), God essentially cursed them, removed them from their promised land, and scattered them acrossed the earth. now..because the Bible mentions the actions of the Jews, does that make them actions of God? not neccessarily...Man isnt perfect, therefore Mans history isnt perfect.

i think its curious that Jesus says "money is the root of many evils" that "you cannot serve two masters; you will love the one and hate the other..; no one can serve both God and money" meanwhile, we have known, proven Satanic symbolism printed on our money! what does that imply? when you look into the Fed, it was founded, among others, by the Rockefellers; a known proponant of the agenda to create a global government.

to me, that is very telling, since the system of the Beast is a global government, ruled by the antiChrist, which is know as mystery Babylon..or AMERICA! theres a cycle of leads here that always tie in with eachother.

i would argue that God is real, and his opponent, Satan(Lucifer)and his occult societies, and the false doctrines and heretical beliefs being propogated by them, provide the motive for the nefarious global agendas that can only be described as evil.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:00 PM

Quote:
Hitler was a member of the Thule Gesellschaft, and Bush was a member of Skull and Bones; both were known as the "order of death", both affiliated with eachother from across the Atlantic.

But to say these characters are creations of those organizations is a stretch. This is very different from Ben Franklin being the head of the Masonic order. The founding fathers were power masons, and they made their relationships through being masons.

Hitler and Bush were opportunist. It's more analogous to the protocols of the ninnies of zion rather than the elders. Hitler joined Thule to get support from german nationalists, not because he was a power player in those circles, same reason he merged his socialist workers into the

National Socialists. He didn't 'come from that circle' he went to that circle to get support, to foward his own career. That's like saying 'John Kerry came from the peace movement' Kerry joined the VatVW to forward his political career. Which is not a new revelation btw, doonesbury said it in 1971 (ish?). So ditto with Bush. GWB was the f^&k up who took daddy's legacy spot at Yale, which daddy thought JEB should have, and georgie screwed it up so bad that no other Bushes were welcome, (why dad and son don't get along perhaps?) Bush joins S&B to forward Bush, just like he joined the Carlyle Group (they said he was the worst jackass they'd ever let in the door. and "here's a guy that after he made a few dumb cracks, walked out the door and you never expected to hear about him again.") But Bush was always jumping up for that career goal, which is just what the Cheney's of the world like. Thule society, in itself, was not evil. Many of the Thule-ites were appalled by what evolved. Skull and Bones people largely go into education or media business. There's not a direct connection between secret societies and evil. Small cabals of intellectual extremist ideologues, short term corrupt cash monkeys, and powermongers collect behind one of these overambitious twits, and make them into a leader. Bush demonstrated in S&B and the like that he was willing to do anything for position, including put stuff on record which would destroy him it ever got out, which is how he's controlled. If you want to be a grima wormtongue, you need GWB.

Quote:
Freemasonry, it can now be proven, is an occult, Luciferian organization.

Hmmm. Masons exist in all cultures, but they are independent of religious affiliation, which I think may be a flaw, but it's also a strength.
There's no questioning that many of the Nazi higher-ups were fringe looney self proclaimed christians, and that they believed that *they* were

the rightful children of Israel. This is what Nazi-ism is all about. They believe that the ancient Israelites were aryans, and that the jews are descendents of canaanites (arabs) who conquered them, took over after the diasporrah or whatever. What all of this anti-secret society stuff gets you to is missing the whole point. There are countless secret societies which don't turn into Nazi Germany. Hundreds. Many states were created by secret societies, including France and the United States.

Taking the counterpoint (and I knew we were going to have this argument eventually, because of your screen-name) I think it is the religion in these loons that makes them loons. I don't think it's the christianity in bush, but it may to some extent be the zionism in some of his supporters, pushes them just enough over the edge so that they can torture the arabs (oh yeah, give me some of that ancestral hatred, baby)

Quote:
Masonry was respected in America, until the 1820-30's when the Citizens got a true glimpse at the foundation and nature of

Masonry;

Masons are only now crumbling today. It's somewhat sad. I think there were flaws in the idea, but I have tremendous respect for them.

Quote:
at which point they became persecuted and were forced under ground!

Not very far. I can still see them.

Quote:
when they reappeared later in the century, they had formed an outer

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DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:34 PM

No offense to your faith, btw. Nothing against jesus. just scan the bible, and objectively classify good actions vs. evil. If you can do it to the GOP you can do it to the GOD. Old testament yhwh, revelations, lot of evil on the stated side of good.

KANEMAN

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
USers have a strange love of ignorance. It shows up all sorts of places -
- I don't know much about art, but I know what I like
- with all that fancy education
- don't know much about history, don't know much geography ....

It has to do with some notion that the 'common man' - uncivilized, uneducated - is not a, well, lout, but a diamond in the rough. It equates education with being uppity and arrogant, effete, both gullible and corrupt at the same time ... Education got a reprieve after Sputnik when 'hard scientists' got a measure of public respect, but that didn't last long.

And that has to do with one of those chasms of thought so easily spanned in the mind. At one and the same time, the US is a classless society - but built on the integrity of the hardworking lower class. (Though however hard they work, Hispanic maids and farm-workers need not apply. This honest base is white.)

So yeah, the US is in love with all things ignorant - fundamentalist religion (Don't think ! - BELIEVE), poor education, isolationism, narrow thinking, and so on.

fu*k you!

talks and eatsshitisall

KANEMAN

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Hitler was a member of the Thule Gesellschaft, and Bush was a member of Skull and Bones; both were known as the "order of death", both affiliated with eachother from across the Atlantic.

But to say these characters are creations of those organizations is a stretch. This is very different from Ben Franklin being the head of the Masonic order. The founding fathers were power masons, and they made their relationships through being masons.

Hitler and Bush were opportunist. It's more analogous to the protocols of the ninnies of zion rather than the elders. Hitler joined Thule to get support from german nationalists, not because he was a power player in those circles, same reason he merged his socialist workers into the

National Socialists. He didn't 'come from that circle' he went to that circle to get support, to foward his own career. That's like saying 'John Kerry came from the peace movement' Kerry joined the VatVW to forward his political career. Which is not a new revelation btw, doonesbury said it in 1971 (ish?). So ditto with Bush. GWB was the f^&k up who took daddy's legacy spot at Yale, which daddy thought JEB should have, and georgie screwed it up so bad that no other Bushes were welcome, (why dad and son don't get along perhaps?) Bush joins S&B to forward Bush, just like he joined the Carlyle Group (they said he was the worst jackass they'd ever let in the door. and "here's a guy that after he made a few dumb cracks, walked out the door and you never expected to hear about him again.") But Bush was always jumping up for that career goal, which is just what the Cheney's of the world like. Thule society, in itself, was not evil. Many of the Thule-ites were appalled by what evolved. Skull and Bones people largely go into education or media business. There's not a direct connection between secret societies and evil. Small cabals of intellectual extremist ideologues, short term corrupt cash monkeys, and powermongers collect behind one of these overambitious twits, and make them into a leader. Bush demonstrated in S&B and the like that he was willing to do anything for position, including put stuff on record which would destroy him it ever got out, which is how he's controlled. If you want to be a grima wormtongue, you need GWB.

Quote:
Freemasonry, it can now be proven, is an occult, Luciferian organization.

Hmmm. Masons exist in all cultures, but they are independent of religious affiliation, which I think may be a flaw, but it's also a strength.
There's no questioning that many of the Nazi higher-ups were fringe looney self proclaimed christians, and that they believed that *they* were

the rightful children of Israel. This is what Nazi-ism is all about. They believe that the ancient Israelites were aryans, and that the jews are descendents of canaanites (arabs) who conquered them, took over after the diasporrah or whatever. What all of this anti-secret society stuff gets you to is missing the whole point. There are countless secret societies which don't turn into Nazi Germany. Hundreds. Many states were created by secret societies, including France and the United States.

Taking the counterpoint (and I knew we were going to have this argument eventually, because of your screen-name) I think it is the religion in these loons that makes them loons. I don't think it's the christianity in bush, but it may to some extent be the zionism in some of his supporters, pushes them just enough over the edge so that they can torture the arabs (oh yeah, give me some of that ancestral hatred, baby)

Quote:
Masonry was respected in America, until the 1820-30's when the Citizens got a true glimpse at the foundation and nature of

Masonry;

Masons are only now crumbling today. It's somewhat sad. I think there were flaws in the idea, but I have tremendous respect for them.

Quote:
at which point they became persecuted and were forced under ground!

Not very far. I can still see them.

Quote:
when they reappeared la

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CITIZEN

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:53 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:08 PM

I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond, Kaneman has pretty much killed this thread by trolling, but what the hell.

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Sevenpercent=
no God exists, therefore no evil exists, and everybody on earth acts morally, or immorally, based on their own personal opinions of ethics.

That's a fallacious argument, and one I'm not surprised you made (no offense intended, but it's a common argument). You're assuming that because there is no God, there is no good/evil. You're also assuming that someone acting on their own personal opinions of ethics would be a norm, which it clearly is not.

Quote:
i hear this a lot from non-believers...im constantly told .."there is no Satan, people choose to do bad things out of their own will"
right here is precisely the hypocracy!

People do choose to do bad things of their own free will, but again, here is another of your (and in this case, gross) errors. I'm not a non-believer. Never claimed I was. I'm a Christian; go to church every week. You assumed from my pro-science stance that I was an athiest - I'm not; Which is why I initially argued that religion and science were not mutually exclusive.

Quote:
whether God exists or not, everybody acts of their own free will! so what makes these alleged "Christians" in power any different? are you suggesting theyre acting on behalf of God?

Not at all. I'm suggesting that they are acting on their own personal power trip. However - They are blindly supported by the ignorant Christians that believe that because a person says they love Jesus, they are more ethical/moral than someone who is an atheist or an agnostic. And they use biblical passages to support bombing campaigns. My point is that they aren't Christians - yet somehow, they speak for evangelical Christians. It's time for you to police your own - you evangelicals want to be taken seriously? Start acting like Christians.

Quote:
...meanwhile your telling me that the absence of God, ultimate human free will, would prevent, or solve all these problems?

No, I'm telling you that prayer doesn't cure cancer, no matter how many happy-go-lucky stories you read in the Chicken Soup books. If it did, there'd be far fewer people with cancer. I'm saying that religious fundamentalism, with it's fire and brimstone belief system that believes the earth is 6k years old, is actually helping destroy the world, not save it. Scientists are working hard to cure the sick and lift up the poor - Are YOU saying that their actions aren't Christian? I'm trying to understand THAT logic.

Quote:
=one person is God fearing, and they believe there are eternal consequences for their choices, therefore they treat everyone as they would want to be treated.
=there is another person who decides for himself what is right and wrong, and does not fear any consequences, outside of the law

There's that fallacy again. The law, mutually agreed upon by a society, sets what is right and what is wrong. The values of parents and what they teach their children set the values of what is right and wrong. Do I need to be a Christian to teach my kids that beating the shit out of people and stealing are wrong? Nope, but you're claiming that without religion there's no morality - I respectfully disagree.

Quote:
your telling me the devout Christians, God fearing, are responsible for the immoral actions of society?

Unless you want to stand there, right where you are, and denounce half of Washington, including the Pres; every televangelical ministry, including Pat Robertson (who wanted to assassinate a man); and megachurches, who have Burger Kings built in them so that people can consume while they worship, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Quote:
but no faithful believer would do such inexplicable things to another

I disagree, based on your use of what is called the Scotsman fallacy -look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman_fallacy

You're defining what a believer is, the

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:35 AM

:troll:
I just thought i'd try that for kaneman's sake.

RUE

Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:41 AM

7%

Kaneman didn't kill the thread, it just sort of petered out for a while. Think of his posts as a thread bump you just have to scroll past.

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:59 AM

lol. threadbump.

If two combatants have a threadbumping exchange which continues, then it's a threadmire.

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