There is a God, or There is no god the next generation

POSTED BY: citizen
UPDATED: Friday, August 25, 2006 02:57
VIEWED: 14701
PAGE 7 of 11

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On the beach where I vacation there's a beautiful sculpture of an egret, oit of an oyster bed, which was at least allegedly made by the egrets who live there, and I see no reason to doubt it.
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Uhuh and Fionn mac Cumhail really did build the giants causeway.

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Wait... Fionn mac Cumhail didn't build the giant's causeway???

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More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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if there were a God which created the universe, what would you expect such an entity or force to look like, or disclose itself to you as? would you expect frequent visitations, or feel entitled to a set of your own miraculous abilities?

the Bible records many events, divine and otherwise, which happened thousands of years ago... what other evidence would we have of such things, outside of written, corroborated accounts? im sure you know through all your technical adeptness that there were no video cameras or science laboratories back then, right?

archeology continues to prove the Bible historically accurate, as far as towns, battles, rulers etc. just as history confirms the accuracy of such events

over a quarter of the Bible is prophecy. can you predict what is going to happen a week from now? in the past the Jews would stone to death a prophet whos prophecies were not fullfilled. yet there is an incredible amount of predictions, which came true, typically hundreds, to even a thousand years in advance. this includes the propecy fullfilled by Jesus, the destruction of the temple in 70ad, and even Israels rebirth as a sovereign nation in 1948.

even Nostrudamus, in all his infamy, has not been proven to be this accurate. so what more should we expect from these people?

prophecy was a gift, so that we may know that the prophets recieved divine messages from the Father of creation. this was so that we may know that God is real, and that he has a plan to spare his people from times of wrath; just as Noah with the ark, just as in Sodom and Gommorah

you can continue in your disbelief, because God, in his wisdom, hid his secrets from those who of their arrogance, sought to follow only their own desires. those people will be in great distress and turmoil as they wonder what is coming over the world, because this is to be the most difficult, trying time in history

i just pray you will have the spiritual knowledge and discernment to understand the times you are entering into; because there are forces currently at work, who are preparing the reign of antiCHrist, and to disbelieve in God, is to deny Satan and his influences. understand that in this period, known as the tribulation, even many of the elect will be decieved, and those who receive the Mark will partake in the wrath of God, his judgement and condemnation for those who persistantly refused to acknowledge his love, his wisdom and his word.

i cant prove God scientifically exists, by your standards, which is that i need a theory that i can run through a computer model. but science cant save you from what is about to befall humanity and the world, and that is a tradeoff i am more than willing to make

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Hey, Antimason,

History also teaches us that millennarianism has cropped up at least every hundred years and once for every major war since Jesus walked. So history shows that for the past 2 thousand years folks have talked exactly the way you talk and they were all--every last one of them--wrong.

Every one of them thought that the social uphevals of their day constituted the entrance into the tribulation, and they were quite mistaken. What makes your millennarianism better than theirs? Surely they knew their Bible, surely they were good Christians, what made them so wrong and you so right?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thanks for agreeing Reaverman.

This is just me trying to get back in the discussion, getting updated. lol, school just started today, so i won't be able to post as often anymore.

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HK--
the tribulation, and the reign of the beast identify the last 7 years of the age. since the Jews are Gods people, the antiChrists goal is to decieve them into worshipping him as their messiah. during this period, the Jews will once again resume sacrifices on the temple mount, and 3 1/2 years into the treaty with Israel, the deal is broken, the sacrifices stop, and an "abomination" is set up on the temple; whatever the sequence to these events, i think this event may alert the world to the reality of the antiChrist, but will be to late at this point.

well, in order for this to happen, the Jews had to reclaim the land, and establish Israeli sovereignty once again; and after that, they had to rebuild the temple. these events were to directly proceed the final generation.

name a time that the Jews had a nation before 1948?

and now the Jews have the temples designs retrofitted and ready to be put in place

if America is indeed mystery Babylon, than it will be us who pushes for this global government that is to become the beast.

Israel is, by proxy, our lil superpower...maybe its in anticipation for Americas future messiah?

with this "war on terror", and the progression of the national security apparatus, ID scanners etc, America for the first time is officially threatened with a permanant loss of liberty.

name a time in America, let alone the history of the world, when man possessed the technology to track global trade on an individual basis, to the extent that no one can buy or sell without recieving a mark, or identification?

without getting into every detail, i repeat- no time, before 1948, was the right time, because the circumstances werent right!

but now we have prophecies from Jeremiah, Daniel and Ezekial with the potential to be fullfilled, most of which proceed or define the end of the age. one notable prophecy is in Daniel, which deals specifically with Persia, or modern day Iran, and Israel, aswell as the antiChrist and his rise to power during the tribulation

im not saying i know the exact day, but Jesus said that when the time drew near, we would see the signs and know that our redemption draws close

the bible also says:
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

well, if we have known evidence about the elite, manipulating world markets, plotting and scheming for control, along with proven occult secret societies whos members make up a significant portion of this group; including current "Christian" politicians and there agressive world views, then i think we should draw some parallels already

the key is all this is to realize that there really is a "nwo" agenda

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Antimason,

I know the whole millennial gig, believe me. I know about Jerusalem and the 7 years of tribulation. I know what millenarians say today. My question was how could all these other folks for the past 2 thousand years be so dead wrong? They read the same Bible you do, so how did they miss all this stuff you list? Every hundred years for 2 thousand years, there have been enough apparent fulfillments of prophecy to convince many Christians that Antichrist was upon them.

Antimason, I have a serious question for you: do you want us to be afraid? Do you think Christ wants us to be afraid?

And I'm curious, have you investigated the socalled "Third Secret of Fatima" at all?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Hey, Antimason,

History also teaches us that millennarianism has cropped up at least every hundred years and once for every major war since Jesus walked. So history shows that for the past 2 thousand years folks have talked exactly the way you talk and they were all--every last one of them--wrong.

Every one of them thought that the social uphevals of their day constituted the entrance into the tribulation, and they were quite mistaken. What makes your millennarianism better than theirs? Surely they knew their Bible, surely they were good Christians, what made them so wrong and you so right?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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So well stated HK, there really is nothing more to talk about..I patiently wait for Anti's response.

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Okay. This tangent is relevant to the thread under only the thinnest of pretexts but I figured it was better to do it here than starting another thread because, hey, how many religion related threads does RWED need? And since we have premillenial dispensationalism on display in this thread (thanks to antimason), and the article I'm about to hype mentions premillenial dispensationalism ... well, that's good enough for me .

I've long held a sneaking suspicion that some attitudes in our country in regards to wealth and poverty have a distinctly Calvinistic streak to them. Attitudes such as poor people are to blame for their own poverty or any attempt to tax rich people is wrong (gross oversimplifications of the positions to make the point). There's something in those attitudes that reminded me of the concept of the Elect. Even if the people holding those views were not Presbyterian or religious at all.

So it was edifying to read the following article* that traces the historical intertwining of Calvinist thought with American belief throughout the history of the country. Just a few snippets from the intro to the article:

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excerpted from http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/2/6/15390/88821
Today, many ideas, concepts, and frames of reference in modern American society are legacies of the history of Protestantism as it divided and morphed through Calvinism, revivalist evangelicalism, and fundamentalism.

Even people who see themselves as secular and not religious often unconsciously adopt many of these historic cultural legacies while thinking of their ideas as simply "common sense."

What is "common sense" for one group, however, is foolish belief for another. According to author George Lakoff, a linguist who studies the linkage between rhetoric and ideas, there is a tremendous gulf between what conservatives and liberals think of as common sense, especially when it comes to issues of moral values.

In his book Moral Politics, which has gained attention in both media and public debates, Lakoff argues that conservatives base their moral views of social policy on a "Strict Father" model, while liberals base their views on a "Nurturant Parent" model.

According to Axel R. Schaefer, there are three main ideological tendencies in U.S. social reform:

• Liberal/Progressive: based on changing systems and institutions to change individual behavior on a collective basis over time.

• Calvinist/Free Market: based on changing individual social behavior through punishment.

• Evangelical/Revivalist: based on born again conversion to change individual behavior, but still linked to some Calvinist ideas of punishment.
...

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If that sounds like your cup of tea, have at it. It's a long read but I recommend it. Whether we like it or not, and whether the founders would have approved or not, the beliefs of various Protestant denominations have had an impact on this country. Today, the impact is profound and we have a group of ideological extremists as the core base of support for the Republicans in power. Understanding the development of the views that the fundamentalist right hold is important, in my view, if we are ever to effectively counter the threat they pose to the separation of church and state.

I found a link to this article in reading through comments on an ongoing series by a guest poster over at one of my favorite blogs, Orcinus. The series is on authoritarianism and fundamentalism and is something else I highly recommend (part 1: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-i-defining.ht
ml part 2: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-ii-listening-
to.html ). Here's a snippet that I found especially relevant to the thread, "Watch What You Wish For:"

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excerpted from http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-ii-listening-
to.html
... We know, for example, that fear can transform the behavior of otherwise rational and not particularly authoritarian people. Fear creates physiological changes t

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