As I see today

POSTED BY: zzetta13
UPDATED: Saturday, August 12, 2006 07:14
VIEWED: 2552
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HERO

Friday, August 11, 2006 7:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero- are you practicing that stump speech again??

I note for the record that I managed to write that entire post without once mentioning how liberals and the Democratic party are ruining America.

I mention it now because everything thats hard about the 21st Century has some liberal or another sitting around the last 25 years laying the groudwork.

Energy Crisis? No new powerplants, oil refineries, or pipelines.

Terrorism? "Naw, I'll take Monica over Osama she gives better..."

Korea? "Now promise not to build any nuclear weapons and we'll give you lots of money."

Browns? "Hey lets move to Baltimore."

I could go on, but what, what I ask has happened to the Democratic Party of my youth? Zell, Joe...help me out here.

H

HERO

Friday, August 11, 2006 8:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
I just can not remember world governments looking upon their ppl as so much cattle like I get the feeling we are being viewed today. That's where the problems I see are not being answered properly. Not the ppl, the leadership.

I appreciate the sentiment. I suggest you read a book on feudalism or maybe the pre-Revolution peasantry in Russia.

Perhaps your just feeling helpless and victimized because you don't want to take responsibility for your lot in life. I don't mean to be insulting, but I've heard similar sentiments as yours by folk coming before the court and blaming everyone and everything except themselves why they got decided that getting drunk and beating their wife was more of a priority then getting a job.

If your feelin all cattle-fied, go another way. But you have to work hard, pay your bills, and get along whether your with the herd or free rangin it. Thats not "the man", thats life.

H

YINYANG

Friday, August 11, 2006 8:10 PM

Quote:
Since 1956 you've seen America remain the wealthiest and most productive nation on earth. In that time we have stood strong against tyranny, pushed the bounds of science, created countless works of art and liturature, and created new mediums of culture and learning. You have seen the triumph of Democracy over Communism and witnessed the end of the Cold War and the begining of a new age of Information and Technology.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on one point, Hero. Sure, at one time America did push the bounds of science; but, we are falling behind, partly due to restrictions on stem cell research. And, in my opinion, the fact that we're 'the wealthiest and most productive nation on earth' doesn't mean that we're necessarily good as a nation.

I'm iffy on the productivity thing, as well. Sure, at one time we may have been very productive; but, sending jobs overseas and almost always finding those 'Made in China' stickers makes me wonder how productive Americans actual are, when compared to other countries with piss-poor working conditions. and no minimum wage. And, again, not all productivity is good productivity.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

YINYANG

Friday, August 11, 2006 8:24 PM

Quote:
I mention it now because everything thats hard about the 21st Century has some liberal or another sitting around the last 25 years laying the groudwork.

Yes; and the conservatives were all hauling ass for the better good. Right.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

ZZETTA13

Friday, August 11, 2006 8:38 PM

"Perhaps your just feeling helpless and victimized because you don't want to take responsibility for your lot in life. I don't mean to be insulting, but I've heard similar sentiments as yours by folk coming before the court and blaming everyone and everything except themselves why they got decided that getting drunk and beating their wife was more of a priority then getting a job.

If your feelin all cattle-fied, go another way. But you have to work hard, pay your bills, and get along whether your with the herd or free rangin it. Thats not "the man", thats life."

First of all I'm not insulted and I don't feel all vicimized and think my lot in life is a tragedy. My lot in life is fine and I hardly blame everyone for what happens in my life. Yes I agree that things could be different but they are not.

I think that what I've been saying all along and what everyone else that has posted here but you is that they feel the powers that be could do better. Are the other folk that have posted here victims too? Do you think they would rather stay home and beat their wives and children (which I have never done so watch it) and complain about jobs they don't have?

let me get this strait. You are the only one that has posted on this thread that isn't lazy and feels you are in the position you are in because of hard work and the rest of us shouldn't want better nomatter what kind of shape the world is in. I'm trying to see if your "solve all" means if I work hard, keep quiet and say nothing about the things I feel could be better for myself and everyone, well that's the way to go?

If your life and work life are fine then I am happy for you. There are about 5 or 6 other folk that have posted on this thread that say things could be better. Course maybe they should just change their lot in life and stop claiming to be victims. It is their own fault you know.

RUE

Friday, August 11, 2006 8:38 PM

Quote:
The reason I am posting this now is because I feel that for some time now we've been fed this pill and have been told to swallow because it is good for us. We don't need to think. They will think for us. They will keep us safe. They will see to all our needs. Does this sound familiar (alliance)? If you question anything then you're just bucking the system. You're not a team player (I hate that term) and you're not a team player . Well I've been told that for over 30 years.

I guess I don't understand the question. So to help clarify it, I'm hoping you can provide some sepcific examples where you felt you were (for example):

fed this pill and been told to swallow
don't need to think
not a team player, not with the program

I can think of some examples for myself, I'm just not sure if they are the same as yours.

Thanks.

ZZETTA13

Friday, August 11, 2006 9:18 PM

RUE first example of the "pill" question

Go put gas in your car. I don't know anyone that is happy with fuel prices.Is the answer to stop driving my car? I don't know what the answer is. But just because I don't know the answer doesn't mean I have to stay quiet about it.

Another one a little closer to home.fox cancels FF with no interest in bringing the show back. Should we all accept it. Just forget the show. Just swallow the pill and be glad to have what we have. If that would have been the case then there would have been no Serenity. I can see from the post on the forum that ppl understand the original reason the show was canceled. But things have changed.

Not a team player.By this I mean that my employer does not want to hear anything negative about their work methods. Which includes safety.

With me not feeling the same means I (or any of my coworkers that feel the same) don't fit into the program.I haven't had an injury in a long time. I am responsible to see that that continues. But the company should take some responsibility also.

Those are just a couple of examples.If others are fine with those rules,Well that's for them to think about. Guess that's why I, as well as others on the board feel like browncoats.

Z

HKCAVALIER

Friday, August 11, 2006 9:48 PM

I have a book group that meets at my house every Thursday. This week we were discussing Stendhal's The Red and the Black. We were talking about how the fact that we give governments the power to control our lives has been forgotten and lost to the modern imagination; how modern folks have lost contact with the possibility of taking it back.

We talked about the anecdote about Napoleon meeting the Fifth Regiment on the road. The Fifth had been sent to bring Napoleon in. So they meet on the road and Napoleon simply walks out to them and begins talking, y'know, something like, "You know me. We have faught side by side, etc." (only cooler, 'cause it was in french) and convinces them to march on Paris. When the rest of the army hears about it they join in.

So the soldiers in this story were still aware of their personal power, their personal political power. And they made decisions which directly influenced history and it got me thinking.

Back then, guns weren't all that accurate. A man could shoot you from ten paces and miss through no fault of his own. Deadly force, back then, could be thwarted by luck and skill and intent. The individual had a chance.

But nowadays, guns are far more deadly and far more forceful. Your chances of missing with an AK is pretty slim if you have the slightest clue. So the wiggle room for the modern individual when faced with governmental force to say, "Maybe I can get out of this" is greatly reduced. The Holocaust saw the introduction of factory-like productivity in the realm of governmental force and the destruction of the individual.

It's pretty interesting in this context to note that Firefly moves us backward toward the 19th century to tell its tale of individualism and a real struggle for freedom and autonomy. Has the modern state overwhelmed the individual's power to regain his or her power? Was the Wild West the last gasp of individual freedom from state control and domination?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

RUE

Saturday, August 12, 2006 12:11 AM

Thank you both for your input.

Trying to read between the lines, would I be wrong to say these issues are worse under Bush than under Clinton?

The reason why I'm asking is because (I think) if the machine we call society is going along in a direction you're comfortable with, then it wouldn't cause a sense of confinement. It's only when things are happening that you object to, but can't ignore, change, or escape, that you start to feel trapped, frustrated, angry, alienated.

So yes, I feel that today is not going well. It's the diminshed expectations we are told we have to accept. The loss of real wages, loss of natural spaces, loss of choices, loss of hope. And it's not about the GWOT, or even Iraq. It's that no matter what I feel, say and do, the system rolls along right over me with no notice.

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, August 12, 2006 3:00 AM

Sorry to stick in my own two sense here, but I need to argue. Some real key points.

1. Don't be fooled that Clinton is the opposition to Bush. Bush is Clinton, Clinton is Bush. Ben is Glory.
2. Clinton was smarter than Bush, so he didn't put cameras on his evil, but it was just as evil. You were more content because you didn't know as much about the evil.
3. The 1995 FISA rewrite was actually Clinton breaking the law, and democrats reinventing the law to catch up to him, much like the republicans tries to do for Bush and failed.
4. All those million people clinton killed failed to make the news, because the media loved him, because he played their game and didn't arrest them and stuff. Bush OTOH is a moron.
5. Really, one isn't better than the other in any category, but Bush does play the fear ticket more, he has to, because he has no charm. Clinton could charm, he was devil in [and out of] blue jeans. Bush is Cthulu. Or maybe Cheney is, but you get the point.

Only reason I'm saying this is: People have a tendency not to look under the desk of their own people to see what they're up to [and I wouldn't monica's still down there :)] But seriously, all these jesus jumpers with their non-thinking attitude about Bush is just that, they don't want to question their own side. We won, yay us. If we don't accept that, we haven't won.

So while folks over on this side were counting the civilian casualties of Clinton's endless (5?) wars [for oil], most everyone on the left was doing the naivete thing. We say hey, he spending your money on bombing and killing and stripping your civil liberty, and attacking americans and hey he's breaking down the usa and selling off pieces to halliburton cheney and places like communist china dubia and yo guys wake up... and the dems were like ladida, yay us, we're in charge... for the same reason. They didn't want to question their own victory.

But Clinton wasn't your guy, he was a plant for the neothugs. As is Bush, he's not our guy, he's a plant for the neothugs. and neocons aren't conservative, and neolibs aren't liberal, they're all just neothugs, pretending to be liberals, pretending to be conservatives.

Is Bush worse than Clinton from an American civil rights perspective? Sure. But he's not doing more damage. He's worse because he comes second, so he has Clinton's evil, plus his own. If he had been first, Clinton would have been worse, because he would have Bush policies, plus his own.

I suspect team evil overall is looking to switch back to democrat in '08 with their mascot, Hillary.

ps. hillary was on the watergate prosecution team. That and the Scoop Jackson '72 democratic primary are the two groups that you most often find a neothug of either party associated with.

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