There is no God.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2025 05:01
VIEWED: 30440
PAGE 13 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
God can kiss my ass.
River
And there is the fundamental issue with god, yes, he can kiss your ass, but will he? And if he won't, which means his personality will not allow him to, how is that different from being unable to? Is it different from being unable to?
After all how is being unable to do something because of physical law any different from being just as unable to do something because of phycological inhibition when talking about whether or not one is able to do a thing?
If god's personality won't allow him to kiss your ass is it really appropriate to say that he can?
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Yes ... this post has no purpose.
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And here we have the conundrum - the irresistible force (god) and the immoveable object (free will). Is free-will more powerful than an all-powerful god? Now let's suppose the all-powerful god created the immoveable object. It puts your notion of god into a quandry.
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Quote:And if she was doing the same thing as the leader of a secular nation?
Originally posted by RugBug:
That's her perogative and she's not out hurting anyone....
Quote:I practice Shaolin Kung Fu, I probably understand Yin and Yang better than you and I am well aware where the concept comes from
BTW, Yin/Yang is eastern spiritual philosophy and yet we are debating the "western" God.
.Point is they are complete opposites but cannot exist without the other, just like Good and Evil. How can one have just one side of a coin?
Religions pretty much generally agree that Evil is destruction and Good is creation, well you can't create without destruction, you can't build a building without demolishing the one that was there before.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Well, look at me with the last three posts. Not that I feel attacked or persecuted or anything like that (
), but this discussion is an example of how most "debates" go in the real world. Majority, I say? Hah!
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So I was considering all those people who were born before Jesus, those who were geographically isolated and never heard the word, those who were simply brought up with other beliefs and couldn't disown them ...
I haven't come across any argument that would make me rethink that choice.
Again, not a new point of contention. Biblically, there is a "grandfather" clause for those that came before Jesus. Faith is reckoned as righteousness, in biblical terms. How that will all work out, I have no idea.
For those that never heard of Jesus, I could posit some of the various explanations for that, but in the end, it's comes down to 'I don't know for sure.' But because of my faith, and because I believe God is both fair and just, I think it will he will do right by those that fall into that category.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
It puts your notion of god into a quandry.
Nope, not really.
Citizen: I'm sure you know more about Yin, Yang and eastern philosophy than I do.
My point wasn't depth of knowledge, but rather total different foundations of thought/belief so how can an argument every reach a conclusion? In other words: You're playing soccer, I'm playing football and yet we're debating the rules of the game. There are balls/fields, goals, etc but there really is no common ground to start from. It just can't go anywhere productive, can it?I've got to go now.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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Rugbug,
Well, then, that is the difference between following a religion with all its precepts and requirements, and going along for the ride. As I posted (far) above, if you don't actually follow a religion, what claim do you have to its benefits or the potential loss of them?
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Quote:
YinYang: I too have a problem with people of any religion, but especially mine, who use God to justify prejudice and bigotry. Makes my skin crawl. Those attitudes just cannot be biblically supported, but ignorance and hate is rampant everywhere, even in the church.
Let me be clear here RugBug. I realize these are not your attitudes, but I think I have to disagree with you about them not being Biblically supported; they can be. As an Athiest you'll have to bear with me, but I believe the Bible has a few things to say about homosexuality for example. Granted most of it is in the book of Leviticus in the Old Testament, but if I'm not mistaken Paul has a few things to say as well. The problem, as I see it, is that the Old Testament says lots of things that many contemporary Christians rightly disregard: God commands that women who commit adultery are to be stoned; that daughters who disobey their fathers are permitted to be sold into slavery; that slavery itself is acceptable; and the list goes on and on. And as for Paul, well you'd have a hard time finding a bigger homophobe or mysoginist in the Bible. My point is that unfortunatley many, but certainly not all, Christians find textual support in the Bible for all sorts of hateful and prejudical views, which are all too often acted upon. And to be fair, this is not limited to Christians. Islam is at fault as well. I can't for the life of me conceive of following a religion which glorifies beheadings, suicide bombings etc (and yes, I realize this does not extend to all Muslims). So, while there are aspects to many religions that are positive, there are often many negatives to be associated with them too, and they are always backed up with textual evidence. This seems to be the most true with missionary religions.
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Without evil there is no good, Yin and Yang, Hot and Cold, two sides of the same coin. I think if there is a God and a Devil then surely they are one in the same, desctruction is required for creation.
Scientifically, there is no such thing as cold.
Anyway, I take issue with Christianity's conversion properties... I've taken issue with the fact that I'm getting told that I'm going to go to hell for not believing what you do. Guys, IDIC.... Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. It's Vulcan philosophy. Vulcans haven't been in wars since they've adopted this.
Why must we have problems with people who don't believe in what you do? I thought Christians have the whole "turn the other cheek" philosophy going on. If I don't believe what you do, just let me not believe. If I'm wrong, I will burn, and you can gloat. If I'm right, there isn't an afterlife to gloat in.There are different kinds of athiests. Don't lump us together.
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May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
It's the "I'm right because God's on my side" complex that really makes me angry, because there is no logic or debate with a person like that.
I always much prefered ther person who says, "I'm right because what I am trying to acomplish is right and the way I working towards that acomplishment is also right, if god is on the other side I guess I'll burn."
I mean lets face it, if it isn't worth eternal damnation it isn't worth doing. That's what hell brings to the table:
I want to make a lot of money in an immoral way.
You'll burn forever if you do.
Maybe I'll try a different way.
I want to save these children because they deserve a chance at life.
You'll go to hell if you do, they're from a town of heritics and this is their punishment as described in Deuteronomy 13:15.
I don't care, I'm helping them anyway.
If you honestly believe that god will send you to hell for all of eternity without the posibility of parole to suffer in almost, but not quite, unimaginble ways for doing certain things then you are left with a very good way of judging which of those things are worth doing.
What's more you can judge anything by that standard, not just the forbidden things. If the god you believe in says that you'll go to hell for marrying outside the religion then pretend you potential spouse is outside of the religion. Would you still marry him or her? If not then you really don't care about that person very much do you?
I'm not saying you should necessarily hold out for someone you do value as much as your immortal soul, I'm just saying it's food for thought.
Especially when it comes to causes where people say, "I'm right becasue god is on my side," you know that that's a pretty flimsy belief in the cause itself. What does it really say? "I'm right because god is on my side but if god changes his mind I'm switching sides in an instant because there is nothing intrinsic about this side that makes it right."
Or maybe not, maybe the person would believe the same thing if god weren't on their side, but if so why the, "because,"?
A far stronger position is, "God is with us because this is right," because the implication is that even if god were not with them it would still be right. Best of all would be, "Yeah, god is on my side, but even if he were on the other team I'd be here because this is right."
And a good way to gauge the importance of a stance to yourself, whether you believe in god and hell or not, is simple: ask yourself, "If there is a god, and there is a hell, and I knew I would burn in that hell forever because I believed/stood for/supported this, would I still believe/stand for/support this?"
If not then your position is more hobbist than anything else, which isn't a problem, it's good to have hobbies, but it's good to really know where you stand before you get too far into a thing.
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Personally, if the universe isn't the way I think it is, the god that I believe in doesn't exist and one that does send all non-believers to hell does exist, I'm happy that I'm not supporting the real god because, while torture might quickly change my mind, at this point I'd rather burn forever than support the one who decided people should burn forever based on their beliefs.
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Quote:And my point had nothing to do with eastern philosphy save to highlight what I was trying to say, why aren't you picking at the other examples I gave (Hot/Cold, Heads/Tails) lets add a few more, left/right, up down. The point was opposites can not exist without the other, why you feel the need to make it about eastern philosphy not being compatible with western god is utterly beyond me.
Originally posted by RugBug:
My point wasn't depth of knowledge, but rather total different foundations of thought/belief so how can an argument every reach a conclusion?
Quote:Soccer is Football.
In other words: You're playing soccer, I'm playing football
Quote:No, I said Rugby plays with a ball the exact same shape as the ball in American Football, you countered with "but Rugby has different rules!"
and yet we're debating the rules of the game.
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