There is no God.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2025 05:01
VIEWED: 30440
PAGE 12 of 25
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So, my primary argument against most organized religions - the ones I experience most in the US, for example - is that they make God too small. Why would a force that can create the system of itsy bitsy particles that make quarks that make protons and neutrons and electrons that combine just so to make the elements that combine to form water and rock and my skin and everything else and our planet and on and on ...
...be interested in whether two men want to be in love and have sex?
That's part of my problem with organized religions (and my only experience has been with Christianity, so bear with me). It just seems to me that, if this God was so wonderful and magnificent and kind and loving, that anyone who was touched by that and followed him would become a gentle, kind, loving person. Instead, most of the people I've dealt with use their religion to justify their prejudices and bigotry. It's the "I'm right because God's on my side" complex that really makes me angry, because there is no logic or debate with a person like that.
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Yinyang - two things...
1) Amen to that! You nailed it!
2) See my signature 
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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.
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RugBug- Well OF COURSE you feel in the minority! You define Xtian as those who meet your standards of faith! Seems to me that you defined the Xtian religion pretty narrowly, so the feeling of isolation is entirely of your own doing.
Quote:I know this point has been made before, but this god seems puny and petty- a reflection of our human limits. For example, why would God be selfless? God is everywhere! If you have no "self" to be "less" of, that's an irrelevant virtue. Why would God be angry? Anger comes from fear or frustration.
I don't believe God is either white or entirely male. I think he embodies all aspects of male and female. I use the term 'he' for God because of a patriarchal interpretation of the bible. I do believe he can be angry and jealous, but only in the most positive aspects of those words: righteous anger, etc. But again, those characteristics are not the full embodiment of God. He is also loving, caring, kind, selfless, etc. Basically, anything good you see in humans is a reflection of the goodness of God.
If I were going to think up a god, it would be more unversal.
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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I know this point has been made in some fashion several times already - but when I was around 12, and just a little 
oppositional - I started thinking about god. I was brought up with the idea that there was only 1 true religion and everyone else was going to burn in HELL. So I was considering all those people who were born before Jesus, those who were geographically isolated and never heard the word, those who were simply brought up with other beliefs and couldn't disown them ...
and I figured if there was a god out there who was that unfair, he wasn't going to get my worship, even if it meant I would burn in hell, too.
I haven't come across any argument that would make me rethink that choice.
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Quote:I think Signym has a point, it's not going to work for everyone of course but Christians, or at least the vocal ones, do have a big persecution complex. "We were fed to the lions!" excepts it was Christians doin' most of the feedin' and 'pagans' doin' most of the foodin'. How often do we hear how Christmas is under attack, how Christianity is under attack? Seems to me the vocal christians see that they're under attack whenever they don't get everything their own way. Sure not all Christians are like that, but a very vocal proportion are. In fact my aunt took great offence to my decistion to not be Christian.
Originally posted by RugBug:
That's a load of crap. I am neither twitchy nor paranoid and have no persecution complex.
Quote:Without evil there is no good, Yin and Yang, Hot and Cold, two sides of the same coin. I think if there is a God and a Devil then surely they are one in the same, desctruction is required for creation.
Basically, anything good you see in humans is a reflection of the goodness of God.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Mal4Prez: I don't think God experiences emotions the way we do. Everything about man has been corrupted. Our emotions are corruptions of what they should be and what I would imagine (although can't prove) God experiences. For instance, we don't love selflessly or unconditionally. Our anger is very, very rarely righteous...most of the time it is self-righteous. (and calling what the Pres is doing anything akin to righteous anger is really distorting what is going on. He is not acting out of righteousness. He is acting out of politic). I'm not even sure I could ever experience true righteous anger is just too much "dark" in me.
Not sure what to make of this comment:
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Wrong as the superior but oh so distant being defines it. That's so limited, and leaves room for people to mess with it in very damaging ways. (Hello pedophiles!)
Can you clarify?
The Catholic church is as much a political organization as it is a religious one. I doubt you will find one person who will say that the pedophilia that has come to light has any justification. But the church couldn't let the scandal be known or their political might would suffer, so they hid from the world until they no longer could. There is no messing with the definition of their wrong. It is sick and morally and ethically wrong, in no uncertain terms.
YinYang: I too have a problem with people of any religion, but especially mine, who use God to justify prejudice and bigotry. Makes my skin crawl. Those attitudes just cannot be biblically supported, but ignorance and hate is rampant everywhere, even in the church.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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How could god have righteous anger? The point's been made before, but if god made everything, and is all powerful, how could (s)he(s) be angry at anything that happens? Is god saying DOH!
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Mal4prez:
1)Thanks!
2)Lol!
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:I think Signym has a point, it's not going to work for everyone of course but Christians, or at least the vocal ones, do have a big persecution complex. "We were fed to the lions!" excepts it was Christians doin' most of the feedin' and 'pagans' doin' most of the foodin'. How often do we hear how Christmas is under attack, how Christianity is under attack? Seems to me the vocal christians see that they're under attack whenever they don't get everything their own way. Sure not all Christians are like that, but a very vocal proportion are. In fact my aunt took great offence to my decistion to not be Christian.
Originally posted by RugBug:
That's a load of crap. I am neither twitchy nor paranoid and have no persecution complex.
Yea, there are a vocal majority that sound like crazed lunatics. Harry Potter is evil, etc. etc. etc. My own mother won't let me watch Buffy in her house 'cause she thinks it is "of the devil." She can't see past the demons to the metaphor. That's her perogative and she's not out hurting anyone....
Quote:Without evil there is no good, Yin and Yang, Hot and Cold, two sides of the same coin. I think if there is a God and a Devil then surely they are one in the same, desctruction is required for creation.
Basically, anything good you see in humans is a reflection of the goodness of God.
This is why most religious debates deteriorate to arguments. There is no common paradigm to start from, so there really can't be understanding. Every argument you bring up, I counter, but from a completely different paradigm. You say Good/Evil must exist together in the same being, I say not necessarily. I say there are things outside human understanding. Others say that is the only way to define the world. We disagree on a very basic level which means any discussion is fruitless. BTW, Yin/Yang is eastern spiritual philosophy and yet we are debating the "western" God.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
How could god have righteous anger? The point's been made before, but if god made everything, and is all powerful, how could (s)he(s) be angry at anything that happens? Is god saying DOH!
And the point has been made before about free-will. If God was the great puppeteer, plotting and directing the actions of each and every person on Earth, there could be no such thing as righteous anger. But since that isn't how he chooses to be involved in the world, there is room for righteous anger.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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