New to Firefly and have some questions
POSTED BY: KingofallLondinum
UPDATED: Monday, October 9, 2006 02:00
VIEWED: 7364
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First of all, this is a great site and forum. Last month I discovered Firefly and fell in love with the show. It is wonderful. And such a tragedy that it didn't last, but I will not get started on that...
Anyway, this has become one of my favorite shows of all time. I bought the DVD's and have watched all the episodes multiple times. And I bought the movie DVD.
And then I discovered this forum! And I'm excited to find other fans of the verse and have the opportunity to ask some questions.
I apologize in advance if these have been covered fully in the past. But, like I said I'm new here.
So here are some of my questions, and I'll number them for easy reference. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read this.
1. In watching the episode Safe (several times, it is a great episode) I am continually struck by the Tam's father. Well the parents in general. It seems to me that he is hiding things. In fact, I've formed the opinion, and this may be way off base, that he in some way knew that the alliance was experimenting on River and that he had turned her over to them knowing that they wanted to use her abilities. First off, in the flashback episode where River and Simon are young, there is a brief moment after he tells Simon that he can have the dedicated source and Simon has to repay him by becoming a great doctor. River says "what about me" and the father cuts her off by saying something like "years from now" and there's this look on his face like, well, he's not afraid of her, but that he knows she can be dangerous or something. I don't know it always struck me as odd.
And then in the later flashback when Simon is showing his parents the letters, and the mother makes the comment that in a few months Simon will turn around and River will be there. So it is like they know that Simon can't contact her now. And like they don't want him asking questions. The father then brings up that he shouldn't harm his career.
In the last flashback where the father gets him out of prison, he is so adamant about Simon not looking for River. Why? Because he's just a cold father? Because he's embarrassed about going into the police station and it going on his record? Maybe those things play a part, but he seems genuinely afraid of what Simon will do, and how that will get him (the father) in trouble. Which again leads me to think that father knows some stuff. And that maybe he willingly turned River over to the Alliance knowing that it wasn't just some school she was going to.
Anyone have any insight into this?
2. Inara's syringe and the black liquid. In listening to DVD commentaries, Joss said there was going to be a subplot about this and it wasn't what people assumed. Meaning, people assumed that she was going to commit suicide with the syringe if the Reavers boarded. This is in the pilot episode.
I've been thinking what that subplot would have been. Again, maybe somebody here has some insight into this. To, and this is may just be my crazy imagination, but it has something to do with her fear of death and her fear of growing old. Inara clearly has a fear of death. Sure, who doesn't, but there are times she expresses that. Like in Out of Gas when she talks with Simon and he is describing suffocating and she says something like "I don't want to die at all."
Then there is that moment in Heart of Gold (and I especially love that episode for the Mal/Inara stuff) when Nandi comments on Inara's looks and says that Inara hasn't changed at all. In fact, Nandi is surprised that Inara still looks the same.
Again, may just be my crazy imagination, but it seems that Inara has a strong fear of aging and that perhaps she is taking some drugs (maybe even kind of dangerous drugs - the ominous black liquid) that keep her looking young. It is a big secret for her. Obviously. Which also makes me think that this something dangerous for her to do. Maybe even addictive?
3. On to the movie, which I had some problems with, but I'm not going to go into all that now. I liked the m
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Welcome! I know, I know - I only discovered the 'Verse last December and can't believe I missed so much. I'm really grateful to all the longtime Browncoats who made it possible for us latecomers to enjoy all this.
Yes, your observations have been discussed before - nuttin wrong with that.
1. The Tams. They sure acted shifty to me. I don't think there is a canon explanation, but I think they were willing to sell their (younger and female) child to maintain their social status.
2. Inara's syringe. Mucho speculation on this one, and many feel as you do, that it was an antiaging drug. Or a secret sexual weapon. Or a super-painkiller. Or a hyperstimulant to turn her into a killing machine. Who knows.
3. Blue Sun in the movie. Yep, it's there. It's in the background. Look at the propping. Better yet, look at the Fruity Oaty Bar commercial. It opens with a blue sun. As for the Hands of Blue guys, you need to get the graphic novel that explains what happens to those dudes and why the project had to be bumped up to an Operative.
4. City-ships like the Dortmunder. I think there are some in the epic Reaver space battle scene. I like the idea too. Remember in Bushwacked! where the commander of the Alliance cruiser ordered the nursery to be secured? Nursery? Yep, there were babies, even.
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*whew* Actually those are very good questions.
There are a lot of people who have commented on the behavior of the Tams. Some think it's something ominous, some just them being naive and, yes, rather cold. I lean towards "ominous" myself. I think you nailed it.
There is a thread somewhere called "The Big Damn Inara Conspiracy Theory" which actually does, indeed postulate that she takes something to keep herself from aging. It should show up on Google if you can't find it. I can't remember which forum it was in, I'm sorry. So that theory is discussed in depth, but I never got that into it so I couldn't really state my opinion. It seems like it might be valid, but I just don't feel I have enough information.
The syringe, though, is a different matter. Tim Minear has talked about the syringe, and he said (indirectly) that it was in fact a toxin that would kill anyone who had intercourse with her. The subplot was going to be about her surviving Reavers by use of the toxin. I personally don't think she would survive entirly intact, and the whole thing was nixed by Fox as being too dark, though I think they still hoped to use it in later seasons. I think it would have been more interesting if it was the same form of toxin, but used for assasination.
No, there is no mention of Blue Sun or the blue-handed men in the movie. However, you can see what happened to the blue-handed men (possibly not just men) in the graphic novel "Serenity: Those Left Behind".
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Welcome 
1. This could just be that the Tam's new that if Simon started messing with the govs business that "bad things" would happen and are trying to stop him from doing anything rash.
The many years from now thing, IMO, is just that she is too young to have it or have access to things that she shouldn't have access to eg A number of years ago I was searching for Nintendo roms and got a bunch of porn pop-ups.
2. Maybe?
3. I have problems w/ the movie too.
I don't recall any Blue Sun stuff in there. I recall hereing that Joss removed Blue Sun from the story line purposely. There are of course many theories why, and I'm not certain as to if Joss himself has told us.
In the begining of the movie when Simon rescues River (one of my problems), the guys in suits I assumed to be blue hands men, but weren't wearing the gloves. This is either one of two things.
- Joss can just say that they don't need the gloves on within the academy and bring them back at a later time; or
- Joss telling us that they're just gone.
At any rate, I think that Joss needed to dumb down the store-line for the masses and this was one of the things to go. Can't have them over stimulated you know.
4. I don't recall seeing any. But, the city ships seem to be the "local police" type ships. Can't exactly expect the border worlds to have the facilities that a core worlder would "require". Also, in the movie Mal and co. were dealing with the military. So, only military ships would be prodominant.
At any rate, those are some of my opinions.
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Welcome to the verse, King. Do you have a shiny hat?
1. I think the Tams were well placed socially and politically, and knew what was happening to River. In essence, they gave up one child for another. Simon was destined for the Medical Elect, and River, well she was just a female in a culture that placed more value on males.
2. I've always been of the opinion that Inara is much older than anyone thinks. I interpreted her expression while looking at the syringe, which contained her anti-aging drug, to be her thinking, "Well, that was all for nothing, wasn't it?"
3. I think there are only two references to Blue Sun in the BDM. First, as already mentioned, there's is a blue sun at the beginning of the Fruity Oaty Bar commercial. Also, the bottle (I assumed to be beer) that Jayne drinks from and then passes to Simon has the Blue Sun logo on it. That's in the scene where Jaynes says "Shepherd once told me, if you can't do something smart, do something right." Most everyone has assumed that the Blue Hands Men had a connection to the Blue Sun Corporation, and they may have, but there was no concrete evidence to support it, other than the fact the corp. was so predominate a provider of all sorts of goods in the 'verse, as well as River's apparent dislike of their logo, witnessed by her tearing labels off cans and smashing packages of food produced by Blue Sun in "Shindig."
4. Most all of the ships encountered in the BDM were military fighting ships, the Dortmunder and other city-ships from the series were more administrative in nature.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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Re: The Tams I vote nefarious. If you had any doubt at all about the safety of your child, wouldn't you try to see her? And being refused, wouldn't all your warning signals go off?
Re: Alliance city ships. The final battle is in atmo of Mr. Universe's moon. The city ship would be incredibly ungainly in atmo. I think they just left them out of the movie entirely since they wouldn't figure in the big fight.
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Thanks for the great responses!
I'm going to have to get the graphic novel, sounds like some of the answers I seek are there.
Also sounds like I missed some great discussion on these topics. I'll have to start googling to get caught up.
Phoenix - thanks for clarifying the syringe thing. That makes sense to me.
I have to say I totally missed the Blue Sun logo in the movie. Don't see how.
Sigma - that makes sense about not seeing the city ships in the movie. I still I have to say I think they could have worked it in there, if only briefly. I don't know, just me, because I love the TV show so much. It would have been a nice connection. And I have a problem with the Simon rescue too. When I was just a lurker here, I read a thread that very eloquently explained how Simon breaking River out could match with the story of the breakout that Simon gives on the show.
Logically I can see how that works. But on an emotional level for me, it doesn't. Because in the show part of the River mystery was how in the dark Simon was about what was done to her. Having him break her out, see the facility, have some glimpse of what they are doing, takes away some of that mystery for me and doesn't jive with the show. Again, I can see how it can fit together, but for me it just doesn't do it.
Well, I wasn't going to get into the movie, but since the can of worms has been opened a bit...
I've always had a problem with how hostile Mal is toward Simon at the start of the movie. It works from a stand alone movie viewpoint. Certainly helps set up Mal's character arc.
And in the DVD commentary Joss explains a little that things are not going well for Mal, Book is gone, Inara's gone and Mal's lost his bearings.
But for me, it just conflicts too much with how the series ended. Plus, in Safe when Simon asks Mal why he came back for them, Mal says "you're part of my crew," but in the movie he tells him he's not part of the crew.
Those contradictions bothered me. Of course, Joss had to do it for the movie to reach a wider auidence. But for me...
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No, I don't have a shiny hat, but I have a pretty cunning one!
I'm glad it is not just me that saw some ominous things about the Tams.
I think there could be something to them sacrificing one kid for another, to protect or even enhance social status, gain political favor, etc. Interesting...
ecgordon - Ah, on the bottle! Good one. I'll have to watch those scenes again. Thanks.
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King, I doubt if there are many Browncoats who don't have at least one issue with the film, of those of us who saw the series first at least. If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done. I know there are many new fans who came to the 'verse via the movie first, so their reactions are sure to be different.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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I only watched Safe a few hours ago and for the first time I did notice that the parents especially the Father was cold and didn't care.
Inara's syringe is a complete mystery but my view is a suicide drug,cause I think there is no other expalnation I can think of.
Blue Sun wise read the comics.
I think theirs no Alliance cruisers from Firefly because if you think about in Firefly they never used any weapons at all and their's no evidence of any weapons which suggests that they have probably only a few weapons onboard if any,and think about the Alliance would have different class ships so the ones in Serenity are all Battlecruisers or attack ships which are built for fighting,plus the Alliance criusers from Firefly have nursery's,etc. so their not going to send them out some where which might involve fighting.
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