9/11 NORAD tapes released...

POSTED BY: Dayve
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2006 23:15
VIEWED: 10691
PAGE 11 of 14

PREV PAGE 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 NEXT PAGE

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, August 4, 2006 5:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Anyhow, when it boils right down to it, such theories only exist when the "official story" is an obvious and blatant load of bovine excretement.

LOL. You have such a way with words. I try to be more diplomatic and say the official story has "anomalies." LOL Little good it does me, to be more diplomatic.

Quote:
#1 Where is the evidence that Bin Laden (who passionately denied it) had any hand in this act ? . . . Why is that question not asked, never asked, by anyone but me ?

Because you're brave, and I'm not. (Whispering: I ask it too, but not in public.)

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

ANTIMASON

Friday, August 4, 2006 5:27 AM

FremDfirm, in response to your question about Usama, i thought you might want to know...

the FBI has ADMITTED that it has no HARD evidences tying Usama to 9/11.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13664.htm

and in response to the other fellows questions about the buildings and explosives:
the building was most likely pre exposed to incendiary devices, by elements within our government, to cover their own tracks RE: their complicity in the events, and to compound and further dramatize the spectacle beyond what people could mentally disseminate. if an investigation could have been performed, they risked being exposed, and if the event were any less polarizing, the "War on Terror" would have no shot of remaining in the forefront of Americans minds 5 years later.

here is the link of BYU tests confirming thermate samples being recovered
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2006/200606scientificanalysis
.htm

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, August 4, 2006 5:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Who set the charges? When were they set? Why were they set? ...Who else could've done it?

Good questions. But first things first. We need to determine if the evidence supports such a theory, as opposed to other explanations. Did a demolition even happen? Does the physical evidence support this as the best fit for the data? If not, we don't have to worry about suspects and motives and opportunities.

It is like a forensic investigation. First we have to decide that someone was indeed murdered. Then we determine how the murder occurred. Until we have a body and cause of death, all finger pointing is conjecture.

I think the biggest difference between us, no matter what issue we are arguing, is that expert opinion is meaningful to you because they come from experts. It isn't to me. Authority and credentials mean little to nothing to me. I'm sort of authority-blind that way. A lot of my arguments with you, SignyM, and Rue come down to this defect of mine, I believe.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, August 4, 2006 5:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i for one appreciate your openmindedness.

Thank you.

Quote:
Bush told everyone after 9/11 "and let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concering the events of september 11" and that "your either with us, or your with the terrorists".....we were constantly told "support our troops, support the war", anything else is un-patriotic and anti-American.

I am very uncomfortable with this forced dichotomy as well. It probably played a role in why Americans aren't very open to dialogue on anything related to the War on Terror.

And Antimason, I'm glad you've calmed down some. You were starting to give us conspiracy theorists a bad name.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

SOUPCATCHER

Friday, August 4, 2006 5:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I think the biggest difference between us, no matter what issue we are arguing, is that expert opinion is meaningful to you because they come from experts. It isn't to me. Authority and credentials mean little to nothing to me. I'm sort of authority-blind that way. A lot of my arguments with you, SignyM, and Rue come down to this defect of mine, I believe.

I think that sums it up quite nicely. (eta: Although I'm not sure I would label it a defect)

At the end of the day my goal is to design something that works and can be manufactured, sold, serviced and retired while still making a company ducats. To accomplish that goal I oftimes need to rely on the opinions of experts. So it's probably not too surprising that I may overextend that to areas outside of mechanical engineering design.

ANTIMASON

Friday, August 4, 2006 6:09 AM

Quote:
And Antimason, I'm glad you've calmed down some. You were starting to give us conspiracy theorists a bad name. :

no your right..i agree. my language becomes stronger the more i articulate my thoughts. i dont mean be so condescending, or offensive, i believe i begin to feel as if im talking into the wind, when i offer known contradictions, and then am given a standard talking point, straight from the presidents mouth it seems...

im sure youll agree, if there is indeed a conspiracy, the nature of the coverup is so extensive that we're in a whole load of $hit if indeed it is true! especially given the nature of the proponants of the official theory and their media mouthpieces which propogate their story. if this is the real deal, as i believe it is, everyone and their grand mother ought to know whats happening...

and if its not true, we still need people constantly criticizing our officials, its the nature of an effective democracy, to prevent complacency and corruption. better to be overzealous than non-existant

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 4, 2006 10:09 AM

Dear God! Dear God in heaven!! Citizen said something I agree with !!

Somebody check the roation of the Earth, see if its spun off its axis!

I'm speechless!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DAYVE

Friday, August 4, 2006 2:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
...what I was taught to do in my many science classes. Be open-minded to new evidence. Be open to correction. Look for the theory providing the best fit for the data, ALL the data. Even data that's inconvenient.

If only our commander in chief had such common sense.

I think most of you here know how I feel about this administration. Not a big fan. I’ve never given the Allian…er ah, government credit for a lot of intelligence, however, I believe there are factions involved in the ‘brain trust’ of this administration that seldom show their true selves to the public.

I don’t discount conspiracy theories out of hand; they are worthwhile, IMHO, to spur debate and find truth, (truth being something that our current leaders seem to think we, as citizens, are better off not knowing).

And, as well as these theories play in the movies or in mystery novels, I, as well as some others here, find it hard to believe that something like this could be orchestrated to the degree necessary to cover all the tracks. Not saying I’m right, just saying.

In the final analysis, (if we ever get there), it is my opinion that several factors will be determined to have played an important role in this tragedy. Outdated equipment, negligence, complacency, and (I know this sounds trite), but blind luck on the part of the hijackers. They caught us with our pants down around our ankles, and we tripped on the way to the gun cabinet.

"endeavor to persevere..." Chief Dan George as Lone Waite, Indian chief

SIGNYM

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:32 PM

Quote:
what I was taught to do in my many science classes. Be open-minded to new evidence. Be open to correction. Look for the theory providing the best fit for the data, ALL the data. Even data that's inconvenient.

Not even scientists do that consistently! It's hard not to be swayed by bias, especially unconscious bias (Mismeasure of Man Steven Jay Gould).

I do have one posisble answer for your Bldg 7 insurance fraud question. Heavily damaged buidlings pose a risk to other buildings and are demolished just for that reason. Not knowing the timeline of Bldg 7's demise I can't say whether it was possible to demolsih in the time alloted but it was certainly a normal- even responsible and proactive- thing to do.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

RAZZA

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
:hand sheepishly raised: I was just wondering - does anyone know if the atc tapes were confiscated and destroyed, and, does anyone know why building 7 came down?

Rue:

Not a civil engineer by any means, but I found some links that might help explain the Building 7 collapse for you.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/norman.html
This one is an interview with Battalion Chief John Norman of the FDNY. Relevant passages as follows:

Quote:
"From there, we looked out at 7 World Trade Center again. You could see smoke, but no visible fire, and some damage to the south face. You couldn’t really see from where we were on the west face of the building, but at the edge of the south face you could see that it was very heavily damaged."

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html
This one is an interview with Captain Chris Boyle of the FDNY. Relevent passages as follows:

Quote:
"Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day."

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html
This one is an interview with Deputy Chief Peter Hayden of the FDNY. Relevant passages as follows:

Quote:
"...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety. "

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/Ban
aciski_Richard.txt
This is an interveiw with Richard Banaciski and FDNY fireman. Relative passages as follows:

Quote:
"They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on.

Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water an

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME