9/11 NORAD tapes released...
POSTED BY: Dayve
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2006 23:15
VIEWED: 10691
PAGE 9 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
To all the shiny Americans out there who go about their daily lives, content in the knowledge that ours is the best, most highly trained military and intelligence gathering system in the world, perhaps you might not want to read the transcripts from NORAD's Northeast headquarters from September 11, 2001.
As has been widely documented, the events of that day were chaotic at the least and a down right cluster-f**k at worst. Obviously that day was a wake up call to the military as to the lack of coordination and cooperation between government agencies.
This is chilling stuff. The day starts out with a conversation about living room furniture and progresses to the point where the nations Air Defense Sector is actually getting its information from public news casts.
Now, before everyone gets all mad at me for disparaging the military, let me say that is not my intention. I have the utmost respect for all branches of the armed forces. I do, however, feel that somewhere up the chain of command, someone dropped the ball big time.
Follow the link below. It is taken from an article in the August edition Vanity Fair and written by Michael Bronner who was associate producer for the film United 93. His comments and editorials are included, but the transcripts speak for themselves. Also, the attempted cover-up of the agency’s ineptitude is included.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080206Q.shtml
All this maybe true. But ours is the best, most well trained military, and intelligence gathering system in the world. At the time of 9/11 NORAD was used to track man made objects in space, track, validate, and warn about missiles and ENEMY aircraft that could be used to attack the US or Canada. It was not a mission goal to track domestic flights and view them as hostile. I would hope that has changed. And I'm sure it has.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And finally, as the last 5 miserable years have shown, the incompetence, shortsightedness, calousness and willingness to cover their own asses no matter what the cost to their integrity of the current admin. makes the case for gross neglegence on every side by far the most plausible to me right now. That's where I'd put my money.
Thank you, HK; I think you clarified my original intent in posting this thread. Regardless of who was in charge at the time of this attack, “gross negligence” proved to be a major factor in this horrendous event. Not sure I’d lay odds, but if I were a betting man, my money would probably be in the same pool as yours.
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Hi HK,
I think some people have just gotten a little frustrated with politics and it's spilling over into here.
For example, people are frustrated with Bush's approach to global warming. (I know this seems off track, but there's a conclusion up ahead. 
) It starts out with scientists saying - the data is in that direction. Then Bush (actually, his proxies in big oil) say - but you haven't proven it yet ! And we have some studies that say otherwise ! Therefore, it's controversial. (Though they themselves built that controversy out of smoke and mirrors.) Then Bush says - well, as long as science has no proof I'll just ignore it.
It's the same thing with mercury pollution, the morning-after pill, intelligent design, etc.
As long as there is some vested interest screaming loud and long enough in dispute, what is fact-based gets transmuted into something 'controversial'.
CTS does seem to be a contrarian at heart, and pushed the wrong buttons at the wrong time in people who were already primed on other issues.
IMHO
For my part, I'm up to my eyeballs in some very frustrating union issues, so I'm not focused too hard on this.
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Quote:That's must be why British, Australian and Israeli special forces are used in joint ventures over American, why the RAF flew the most dangerous and difficult sorties in both Gulf wars, because the other guys were better...
Originally posted by kaneman:
ours is the best, most well trained military, and intelligence gathering system in the world.
And of course why the American Intelligence agencies rely so heavily on British intelligence and SAS personnel.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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bush DID now, its all a conspiricy, and dont bad mouth conpiricy people because some of them, (like me), are normal people who like normal things like food, football, firefly.
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HK:
What?
I'm doing my best to answer CTS's view that it was a controlled demolition without attacking. Yeah I think it's a little foolish, none of the players that could be involved gain anything from the two pronged approach, save perhaps the gov. and when I see a gov. that can pull something like that off without f
king it up I'll ring ya. 
It over complicates the issue. All parties that could have perpetrated the attacks gain everything they could want from just the planes, irrespective of whether the buildings collapse.
Al Qaeda (or any other terrorist entity) gets to kill a hell of a lot of people and they get to show that they can attack the biggest baddest most powerful nation of the arguably most powerful hemisphere in the world right at its heart. They don't need to demolish the buildings, just show they can attack them in such a big spectacular way, job done. Why complicate and endanger a plan by sending in demolition crews?
The American Administration (or shadow puppets, skull and bones, any powerful internal governmental power group, stonemasons whatever) want to get the people to endorse their policies. They need to show the American people that they can be hit at home by the 'terrorist' bogey man. That is spectacularly served by flying two planes in to the symbol of American capitalism, just like with the Terrorists the buildings collapsing is a bonus but hardly one that would be worth endangering the entire plan for.
A rival government, say Syria or Saudi Arabia would likewise follow similar dictates to the above.
Occam's razor, logistics, and motivation all these point away from a controlled demolition. But holding that view and trying to point it out apparently means I have contempt and I'm using jackboot propaganda, so I'll just slink away back under the disgusting cess pool of a rock I came out from under.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Citizen,
FWIW, I find your posts logical and to the point, and I learn quite a lot from them.
I think HK was trying to bridge the gap between you and CTS, that's all. 
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Citizen...I just wanted to second what Rue said.... and that I appreciate all comments on this topic....
I would like to think that this country learned a hard lesson that day, but the war goes on and it seems that there are those among us who are hell-bent on nothing less than the total annihilation of the species....
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:That's must be why British, Australian and Israeli special forces are used in joint ventures over American, why the RAF flew the most dangerous and difficult sorties in both Gulf wars, because the other guys were better...
Originally posted by kaneman:
ours is the best, most well trained military, and intelligence gathering system in the world.
And of course why the American Intelligence agencies rely so heavily on British intelligence and SAS personnel.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
Point taken...rely would be the wrong word...take into consideration..as they use our intel to compliment theirs we use theirs to compliment ours That's what allies do. As far as the RAF flying the most difficult missions of the wars, There is no such thing as a difficult mission in the Gulf for the US air force. The fact is there is no real standing air force to fight against means no real threat. Air defences are an outdated joke.
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Quote:Well hmm as for Intel, that's a topic in and of itself...
Originally posted by kaneman:
Point taken...rely would be the wrong word...take into consideration..as they use our intel to compliment theirs we use theirs to compliment ours That's what allies do. As far as the RAF flying the most difficult missions of the wars, There is no such thing as a difficult mission in the Gulf for the US air force. The fact is there is no real standing air force to fight against means no real threat. Air defences are an outdated joke.
The RAF thing was in reference to the most difficult and dangerous missions being the low level bombing raids, hugging the ground at maximum thrust in order to avoid detection against targets where the stealth bomber could not be used. They put in ordinance with accuracy that the US air force said was impossible.
The US air force is not equipped nor trained to take on low level combat flying like that, the RAF is.
It's the old thing necessity breeds invention, NASA spent millions on a space pen, the Russians used a pencil.
Air defences are far from a joke. Even the vaunted Stealth Bomber was not immune during the first Gulf war when Baghdad was heavily protected by AA. Modern air warfare isn't dog fights between fighters anymore.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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