RWED question: Should Superman Returns have tackled real-world events?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, July 24, 2006 19:39
VIEWED: 1826
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CHRISISALL

Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:17 PM

Yeah, I know Superman is fantasy, but he seems so removed from real life sometimes...

I would have had Superman tackle world peace in a realistic fashion, ripping into the ME thing, and accidentally destroying the planet as forces that want and need conflict turn WMD's on Supes himself. The ultimate "can't control destiny" thing. He'd of course have to travel back in time and warn himself without direct confrontation, a sort of Back To The Future 2 riff, but with a very somber outcome.

How could anyone with that kind of power resist trying to end war?

Comments?

Thinks too much Chrisisall

GEEZER

Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:43 PM

I was watching a show about Superman on Discovery, or TLC, or whatever, and they noted that the comic book had pretty much the same problem during WWII. Why can't Superman just fly over, grab Hitler and Tojo, and end the war? They knew it wouldn't work because: a) it'd be too much of a disconnect from what was really happening, and b) it might be seen as diminishing the contributions of all the Americans involved in the war effort. I think they did do some episodes versus Nazi super-villans, but nothing too close to the actual conduct of the war.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SOUPCATCHER

Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:01 PM

Interesting. It makes sense that you could do more during WWII with characters like Sgt. Rock, Airboy and others who have limited or no super powers since you could focus in on individual encounters that didn't have global implications. Even with characters like Captain America you could focus in on his one-on-one with his arch-nemesis (and it sounds like that is what they did with Superman).

It's one of the reasons I prefer Batman over Superman. Heroes are defined by the caliber of the opposition they face. It's not really a contest for Superman to go up against anyone short of a god. It almost makes Lex Luthor, and others who have battled Superman over the years and survived, seem heroic in comparison.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:16 PM

Wow, Geez and Soup, both very interesting comments.
(To tell the truth I was expecting more flip responses, thanks guys!)

My take would be that that much power in the hands of one fallable being would muck things up at best when focused on world events as complicated as what's happening in the ME.

"You are forbidden to interfere in human history..."

Jor-Chrisisall

SIMONWHO

Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:46 PM

I sort of get the feeling that in the case of both Superman and James Bond each one had a movie which dealt with why they didn't save the day on 9/11 (Bond effectively being punished with a year of torture for not doing so).

But the trouble is that Superman is a fairly simplistic tale with a "do no wrong" central character and a "eviler than evil" opponent. Now while reducing the world to bad guys and good guys works in comic books and low IQ leaders of the free world, any introduction of the complexities of real life (i.e. anything other than terrorists were born bad and hate freedom and truth and justice etc, etc) would make the "real events" ring very false.

So no.

HKCAVALIER

Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:43 PM

Hey there Chris,

Did you know I was writing a novel that explores this very subject? So it'll be hard for me to write a cogent answer to your question, but a good challenge to see if I can render a few key ideas briefly. Here goes:

First I'd say that your question gets at the ugly heart of the Superman fantasy--his impotence to ever really do anything for humanity with his invincibility; the more we believe in him, the more we must divorce ourselves from reality to find value in his deeds. We want the thrill of imagining Superman saving us, but for him to do so in any kind of realistic way would break the infantile fantasy and only displease us. Ultimately, Superman is a masochistic fantasy in which we allow ourselves to relish our helplessness and worship an all-powerful other; it's the Christ story at it's most disfunctional. After all, here's God walking around on Earth with all His power at His disposal and what does He do? Nothing much, cures a few lepers, plays word games with the cops. Oh, He'll be back some day and turn the world into a paradise for believers, but in the meantime? Good-bye old Jesus, hello new Jesus, my Jesus--okay, so it's not Jesus at all, it's the Holocaust, but whatever, who let you in? Miss. Teschmacher!!!

The main character of my novel has a speech about 9/11. Of course, 9/11 happened in his world pretty much as it did in ours, even though his world has superheroes flitting about. He talks about how a mere six months of martial arts training could have given the people on those planes the confidence to deal with box cutters. But people are too complacent, he says, and he blames it on the fact that there are superheroes in the world. "Just imagine," he says, "Just imagine a world where there are no superheroes, where just normal people were the only kind of people anywhere, where people would have to take personal responsibility for their own survival! A world where people would have to grow the up and quit waiting for someone to come out of the sky and make everything better! Don't you see? The superheroes are nothing but a crutch for the rest of us, keeping us primitive and violent, because no one knows what it's like to stand on his own two feet!"

There's an enormous amount of denial imbedded in any superhero story, beginning with the notion that they can run around destroying whole city blocks or throwing villains literally into the next county and nobody dies, nobody's maimed, no one gets paralyzed for life and absolutely no one cries (kind of like a government that can carpet bomb whole cities and only hit "military targets").

Our own culture's love of violence has necessitated the separation of violence into two supposedly distinct entities: "virtuous violence" that educates and communicates values, but does minimal or no harm (spankings and acts of war committed by our government spring to mind) and "evil violence" which is "senseless" and actually hurts people (you hitting your brother in the back seat of the car and acts of violence committed against our government are obvious examples).

In my novel, Superman and a lot of the golden age folks have had enough of pretending not to destroy far more than they preserve and have started a 12 step program for superheroes and villains. Since leaving "the lifestyle" Superman donates the bulk of his time to Habitat for Humanity and councels inner-city kids about grief and rage.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

PDCHARLES

Friday, July 21, 2006 12:19 AM

Wow HK, blow my mind why dontcha.

Audience wise, I think you would lose the sense of escapism. (especially, for those who have relatives in the war)

Also, Supe would have said from the get-go “What WMDs, I just used my X-Ray vision over there, I didn’t see any.”

But if we went with it.

I would have Darksyde (big ol’ bad guy) in cahoots with Osama. Darksyde realizes, after his many failed attempts using his own minions, that he only need to provide a spark to ignite humanity’s need to destroy itself. Big D determines that humans in a huge war against each other would seriously affect Supe’s mind-set. Thus opening a window for a D to S attack.

BOOMTUBE

SERGEANTX

Friday, July 21, 2006 2:55 AM

I really liked this one in large part because it focused on something besides saving the world. I loved the way the themes of alienation, the father-son link, and the relationship triangle were handled. Each was explored without being overwrought and without giving into cliches.

I even noticed little Whedonesque touches with the dialogue that gave it a fresh feel. Anyway, I'm glad that it didn't get sucked into topical issues. It was the best Superman movie yet in my book.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 21, 2006 1:56 PM

I'd love to see someone bring up the topic to Supe, and see him say something like this...

"Look, ok, I mostly try to protect your planet, right.. i'm not a babysitter, i can't protect you from yourselves, only you can do that, and even if i tried, there's no right answer, and forcing one on you would be cruel and foolish - besides which, if you cannot solve your own problems without me now, how on earth are you going to survive without me should the unthinkable occur ?
Now, scuse me, i gotta go catch that guy who fell off a crane before he splatters all over port authority.. nice talkin to ya..."

They shoulda made Supe a lil more of a new yorker, it would have been far more believeable.

-Frem

CHRISISALL

Friday, July 21, 2006 2:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

Our own culture's love of violence has necessitated the separation of violence into two supposedly distinct entities: "virtuous violence" that educates and communicates values, but does minimal or no harm (spankings and acts of war committed by our government spring to mind) and "evil violence" which is "senseless" and actually hurts people (you hitting your brother in the back seat of the car and acts of violence committed against our government are obvious examples).

I find it facinating that our culture has this love of violence, yet we would run to the police if a guy with a gun was seen walking down the street waving it around in a threatening manner (should we not go Rambo on him ourselves to protect the weak ? Oh, wait, in that sit, we ARE the weak...).

I wonder how many peeps here have actually been hit hard enough by another to induce un-consciousness, or had a nose broken by some knuckles....?
*raises hand*
It's not the fun stuff of the movies, IMHO.

So I'm left with the feeling that Superman is solidly locked in a fantasy realm, whereas Batman can bleed a little into the real(ish) world.

But where does that put, say, Daredevil? Not fully loaded, but with extras

...?

More questions, always more questions Chrisisall

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