Alliance Helmets: German WWII helmets???

POSTED BY: BrownCoat1
UPDATED: Sunday, January 18, 2004 03:18
VIEWED: 4827
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BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:47 PM

Ok, so I was watching "The Message" again last night and again it struck me as odd that the helmet the Alliance scout that Zoe kills is wearing is identical to the German helmet of WWII.

We all know Joss is big on imagery & suggestion, so I began thinking this was another way of portraying the Alliance as fascists, the "bad guys" if you will.

I am sure others noticed this as well, and wanted to get your thoughts.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

HERO

Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Ok, so I was watching "The Message" again last night and again it struck me as odd that the helmet the Alliance scout that Zoe kills is wearing is identical to the German helmet of WWII.

We all know Joss is big on imagery & suggestion, so I began thinking this was another way of portraying the Alliance as fascists, the "bad guys" if you will.

I am sure others noticed this as well, and wanted to get your thoughts.

The alliance combat uniforms come from the movie Starship Troopers. The helmets from that movie use the same design of current US Army helmets which, oddly enough, is the same overall form as the German Army helmets from WW 2. In the commentary Joss says the Starship Troopers uniforms were used because they could be rented cheap.

H

GUNSLINGER

Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:39 PM

When the Kevlar (PAGSAT) helmet was first tested in the early 80s one of the concerns about its design was how much it looked like the "Fritz" helmet used by he Germans in both WWI and WWII. It is a classic case of convergent evolution. It is a highly effective shape. From what I can tell, at least some of the helmets in the show are dressed up bicycle helmets.

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
The alliance combat uniforms come from the movie Starship Troopers. The helmets from that movie use the same design of current US Army helmets which, oddly enough, is the same overall form as the German Army helmets from WW 2. In the commentary Joss says the Starship Troopers uniforms were used because they could be rented cheap.

H

I am not talking about the helmets from the troopers in the railcar in "Train Job". I recognized those for Starship Troopers. I know a lot of Sci Fi shows had been using them & figured it was because they were cheap to rent.

The helmet I am talking about is the solid black one that the scout in the flashback sequence of "The Message" was wearing. His entire uniform, LBE & weapons were black; for stealth purposes I am sure. When they show him close up, his helmet is clearly not a kevlar helmet the armed forces are using now. I was in the service and am familiar w/ the kevlar helmet. The one the Alliance scout had on was easily recognized as the German WWII helmet. It is thin metal, not the thicker kevlar.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

PHLEBOTININ

Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:56 PM

In that long NY Times article from 2002 "Must-See Metaphysics" about Joss and Firefly, Joss went on at length about how the Alliance is not meant to always be the clear-cut Big Bad. Joss made the point that sometimes the Alliance is good (the e.g. he used was the U.S. in Europe fighting the Germans during WWII), sometimes not so much (the U.S. in Vietnam). I like this shades of grayishness. Joss said that Mal wouldn't necessarily be able to perceive when the Alliance was being good because Mal is metaphorically "Vietnamese."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that based on this NY Times interview, I'm not sure that Joss would have been trying to get across that the Alliance were straight-ahead fascists. Damn. I wish we could just ask him.

TOM

Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:17 PM

Yea it was a german WWII helmet used in that scene it is also used in a scene in serenity when mal is going for the aa gun. maybe it is for a different type of soldier. similar to today where the more elite special forces wear helmets that are different to the kevlar.

SERGEANTX

Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:19 PM

Thanks Plebotinin,

Do you have a link to that article?

I've noticed that same thing as the episodes developed. I've even surmised that we might have seen a transformation of sorts in Mal, with him perhaps coming to terms with the very points you just made. The seeds of this seem to me to be there. The Alliance officers we've seen so far have been a mixed bunch so far with only the blue hands people looking out-and-out evil. And while its not entirely clear how they're connected to the Alliance, they don't seem to represent its mainstream attitude.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

BROWNCOAT1

Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom:
Yea it was a german WWII helmet used in that scene it is also used in a scene in serenity when mal is going for the aa gun. maybe it is for a different type of soldier. similar to today where the more elite special forces wear helmets that are different to the kevlar.

Could be, or it could be that the helmet from the scene I am describing was the helmet they used during the Unification War. The Starship Trooper ones we see in "Train Job" are a new model.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

HERO

Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:32 PM

Alliance officers and even everyday citizens are consumed with self-interest and greed.

We see the same thing here in the US when the Democrats debate.

All they need are some Nazi hats and an inflated sense of destiny and they might actually win the coming election. Not to mention some flying pigs and an admission that global warming is having an opposite effect in Hell.

H

PHLEBOTININ

Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:41 PM

SergeantX,

alas, I don't have a link to that article. I just have a dog-eared old hard-copy of it. I know you can download the article from the NY Times website for something like $2.95. It's a pretty good article, I'd say. It's not totally about Firefly, but there's some good stuff in there about Joss's philosophy of the show. There's a lot about Joss's background and influences and the writer clearly finds him and his work original and impressive. If you're interested, go to www.nytimes.com (you might have to register, but that's free) and then do a search in the archives for an article in 2000 entitled "Must-See Metaphysics."

Speaking of the Alliance being shades of gray, did you read the Heart of Gold script? Definitely shades of gray going on there, with Mal perhaps starting to realize it. Interesting stuff.

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