River's abilities

POSTED BY: Smaug
UPDATED: Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:05
VIEWED: 7079
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SMAUG

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 5:09 PM

Ok.. this question has been buzzing around in my head for quite some time. I don't believe I have ever seen this discussed or brought up anywhere else or at any other time. If so.. I'm sorry I missed that thread.

Ok.. that being said. This is a question about River's abilities at a specific time in the movie.

River is handcuffed in the room off the kitchen. Jayne decides to take things into his own hands. Exactly what he had in mind.. we don't exactly know. River senses what Jayne is about to do and goes into defensive mode. She takes out Jayne... and realizes she has to show them what Miranda is.. but that they aren't going to be too receptive to her right now.. especially after taking out Jayne with them not knowing that she was only defending herself. Thus.. she does her ninja/assasin thing and makes her way to the bridge. In the process of doing that.. she takes down Simon.. and the shot of her looking down upon him with the gun.

I realize Joss did that to keep us on the edge.. and guessing what the )(#*$)#($* is River doing.. and what is she capable of. Once we find out what she is doing.. my first thought is that she had to take out Simon because she read him at the time that even he would have tried to subdue her. However.. they have a brief conversation and River says that she had to show them.. and Simon says something like.. "you could have just asked"... while nursing his soar throat. To which River replies "I didn't know if you were going to put me to sleep". Or something to that effect.. I may not have the exact wording right.

Anyway... but that is the question.. How could River have NOT known what Simon was thinking? Wouldn't she have known weither or not he would have tried to subdue her and put her to sleep? To me.. it would have made more sense for River to say something to the effect of "I'm sorry.. I had to do it.. because I knew everyone was afraid of me and I wouldn't have been able to explain to everyone in time."

Has there been any indication that there are limits to when and what River is able to read in people's minds? Changing her line to "I couldn't tell what you where thinking at the time." would have left it wide open to their being limits to her abilities.. without having to reveal what they specifically are.

Also.. Why did Jayne not take any flack for what he was about to do? Do you think River didn't reveal that she took Jayne out in self-defense and covered up for him by not revealing what his plan was?

Thoughts?

Smaug..

MSG

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 5:16 PM

I think River recognizes that Jayne has strong self protection impulses that lead him to do bad things and didn't blame him or tell the crew what he did. As for Simon and the mindreading thing, I don't think that she can read minds to the level of every thought, impulse, etc. She seems to be able to concentrate and get a general picture of the thoughts at that moment or flashes of memory, but I don't think she's ever been the I can hear every thought as you have it kind of reader

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

IAMTHEREAVERKING

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 5:22 PM

I tend to agree with MSG, that her Reading capabilities are limited somewhat, more like knowing intent and that sort of thing. When she took Simon out, she had to be quick, because the rest of the crew could have come back and found her if she stopped to chat. River as an all-knowing type of character wouldn't be much fun.

PHOENIXROSE

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 5:30 PM

You have the progresion a little off. She woke up from one of her dreams and got a determined look on her face; this was when she was probably thinking "I know what this is about now, I've put it all togehter from the fragments, and I have to show them." According to the novel, right after this is when she picked the lock on her cuffs. She was already on the ceiling when Jayne came after her, and she just took him out without any fuss. Whether because she had sensed what he would do or just knew he would try to stop her doesn't matter, she just knew he had to be taken out.
She tells Simon "I had to show them. I didn't know if you were going to make me sleep." and he said "You could have asked"
Here is my theory; at the time Simon was thinking "Okay, she's attacked Jayne and she's jumping out at me and kind of startled me and the crew is really freaking out. What should I do?" hence she wouldn't have known if he was going to make her sleep or not, so she took him out as well. According to the novel again, she took him out because he was the only one who could really stop her.

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SMAUG

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 8:02 PM

Quote:
I tend to agree with MSG, that her Reading capabilities are limited somewhat, more like knowing intent and that sort of thing.

But at the very end.. Mal says.. "But I suppose you already know what I am going to say."

To which River replys "Yes, but I like to hear you say it". That shows a lot more than just "intent". Plus in Objects in Space.. we clearly see River being able to read emotions, words, thoughts.. down to the very specifics. What isn't shown is if she can read ANYTHING that might be buried in their.... or just what is forfront on someone's mind.

Quote:
Here is my theory; at the time Simon was thinking "Okay, she's attacked Jayne and she's jumping out at me and kind of startled me and the crew is really freaking out. What should I do?" hence she wouldn't have known if he was going to make her sleep or not, so she took him out as well.

That probably makes the most sense. I could see Simon thinking with 20/20 hindsight "Why didn't you just ask?" But in the heat of the moment.. he WAS probably a little freaked out.. and River could read that and logically deduced that her best chance of success was to simply take him down. The "just do it and ask for forgiveness later" line of thinking.

Still unsure of why she is protecting Jayne though. Only Simon and Mal know of Jayne's betrayal on Airel. And now only River knows of this second attempt. Albiet, not to sell her out to the feds this time.. but non the less.. trying to get rid of her against Mal's wishes.

Smaug

PAGANPAUL

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 8:07 PM

I never read the novel, but I had wondered about that too. She should have been able to tell if Simon was about to put her to sleep or not.

I've also wondered about Mal being very quiet and trying to sneak up on her when she was in the control room. He should have known better. Just how was he planning on sneaking up on a psychic?

There are a few other questions I've had, but it all comes down to "suspension of disbelief". If I analyze it too thouroughly it just spoils the shiny fun.

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流口水的婊子和猴子的笨儿子。
Liou coe shway duh biao-tze huh hoe-tze duh bun ur-tze.
"Stupid son of a drooling whore and a monkey."

MSG

Wednesday, July 5, 2006 9:00 PM

I think it's because in some ways Jayne is like a little kid. he gets scared and reacts without thinking about morals or consequences. It's not like Mal who thinks through everything first to see if he can live with it. River would see that and know that if he had calmed down, he wouldn't have done anything to hurt her...he just freaked..kinda like Simon...or Mal in the bar after the fruity oatie moment...when it comes down to it ( except for the lapse on Ariel) Jayne's been there for her..especially in the BDM

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, July 6, 2006 5:22 AM

It was foolish of Mal to think he could sneak up on her, but old habits probably die pretty hard; he's not used to dealing with someone who can sense him. Although give him credit - he did remember she didn't have to be able to see him in order to kill him.

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CAVALIER

Saturday, July 8, 2006 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Smaug:
Quote:
I tend to agree with MSG, that her Reading capabilities are limited somewhat, more like knowing intent and that sort of thing.

Plus in Objects in Space.. we clearly see River being able to read emotions, words, thoughts.. down to the very specifics. What isn't shown is if she can read ANYTHING that might be buried in their.... or just what is forfront on someone's mind.

Smaug

In OIS she did not read much connected to immediate events. She saw people deliver soliloquys about their inner feelings. If River can see into the heart of people, then certainly she would have a very good idea about what they were going to do next. But not necessarily a perfect idea.

RIVERMADNESS

Saturday, July 8, 2006 7:47 PM

Long time lurker first time poster, I have been pondering this very question for awhile now. First we know River is a psychic, stated at the start of the BDM. She is most likely the first psychic created by this program but how psychic is she I believe no one really knows do to her unstable condition a result from the process of her creation.
What we do know is.

1. River can project her thoughts, dispayled in the BDM during the escape when she calls Simons name and her lips aren't moving. Plus I believe this may have been alluded in objects in space, when she chats with crew individually vice the total broadcast when she cats with Jubal Early.

2. She can read minds shown in Safe and stated in the BDM. In safe where she finds out the history of the mute little girl thus being labeled a witch. Plus there are numerous other times hinted at through out the series.

3. She feels every thing as stated by Simon in Ariel. So besides being a psycic she most likely has strong empathic abilities too.

So this is what we know, now to some of the questions.
1.Jayne in the BDM, obviously wrestling over the idea of getting rid of River and the airlock result from the previous time he tried. River beging able to project her thoughts and reading Jaynes intentions and internal conflict it is conceivable that River gave him a mental nudge so she could escape the pantry. Thus no need to report on Jayne since he was nothing more than a tool for escape.
2. Simon in the BDM, I didn't know if you were going to make me sleep? Question if she did mentally nudge Jayne it is conceivable that she needed a little time to mentally recover after testing this new psychic skill, so she could not read simon thus subdued him quickly. River looked ominous standing over Simon the first time I watch the BDM, now she looks more perplexed to me standing over simon.
well these are my thoughts on the subject we know she is a psychic she can read minds and project her thoughts. She can possible plant suggestions in willing minds (i.e. Jayne). Finally she has accepted what she has become (i.e. my turn!!).
So when Joss does continue the story of our Epic hero Mal and his colorful crew we may just learn out how psychic Mal's little albatross truely is.

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