River's abilities

POSTED BY: Smaug
UPDATED: Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:05
VIEWED: 7079
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CAVALIER

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:35 PM

I think it may be a mistake to assume River is a ‘conventional’ telepath, just because she is referred to as a psychic.

psychic (KNOWING)
adjective
having a special mental ability, for example so that you are able to know what will happen in the future or know what people are thinking:

intuition
noun {C or U}
(knowledge obtained from) an ability to understand or know something immediately without needing to think about it, learn it or discover it by using reason:

(Definitions from freesearch)

“River is psychic, and Early is so intuitive he is almost psychic”
Joss Whedon, commentary on Objects in Space

“People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking.”
River Tam, R. Tam Session 1

Just because River can read minds is not, in itself, a reason to believe she has some sense denied the rest of us. Given the absence of any other magic powers, or even things like FTL, in Firefly, I tend to go with the most prosaic explanation of Rivers abilities. She seems to have always been very good at reading other people, long before she entered the Academy. It is possible that the effect of the Academies surgery was simply to exaggerate this existing, non-supernatural human ability.

It may be worth pointing out that when River reads someone on-screen, you can sometimes see her “working it out”. I think this is most obvious during “Safe”. River does not firmly say “You are the Patron of this town, and you murdered your predecessor”. She makes an uncertain, almost experimental, remark, and then pauses. Then, after she has had time to absorb everyones reaction to this, she makes another remark, and so on. After her last remark “You were alone with him”, the new Patron orders her burnt alive, and we can all read his mind.

I read once that humans suffer from schizophrenia far more than any other species. The theory is that there is a mental module responsible for generating models of other peoples minds. The output is supposed to be a set of predictions about what other people are, will, did, or might, think. If the connections with the rest of the brain are disturbed, you hear voices, or some strangers thoughts, or feel whatever happens to someone else…

If you tried to improve or grow this module, and it did not quite work, the result might well be someone with an uncanny insight into the people around her, and symptoms very similar to Rivers.

To be honest this strike me as being a lot more interesting than the normal boring telepath. It should give us some insight into what River is, and is not, capable of.

ORMAYBEMIDGETS

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:54 PM

Quote:
1. River can project her thoughts, dispayled in the BDM during the escape when she calls Simons name and her lips aren't moving.

When was this? The escape from the Academy? Or escape from the Reaver attack?

I don't think that River can project thoughts, "mentally nudge", or control people. Nothing in the series or the BDM tells us that she can.

Although, I do have to admit that your theory is very well thought out, and it certainly makes sense, especially:

Quote:
she needed a little time to mentally recover after testing this new psychic skill, so she could not read simon thus subdued him quickly

I just don't think that it's something she can do, as we were never told it was.

I agree with whoever else said it, that she probably couldn't read Simon because his foremost thought wasn't "I gotta knock her out" or "Well, I won't put her to sleep", it was "Oh no, River's out. Is she dangerous? Are they gonna hurt her? How'd she get out?" etc.

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DB: Doesn't exactly fit the thug in the profile alley. Wait, what?

LAMPYRID

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 8:58 PM

I think the best evidence that River can project her thoughts is in OIS where Kaylee is tied up in the engine room.

River has been speaking to Early and the crew over the intercom, but when she says Kaylee's name, it sounds like she is there with her. Kaylee looks up, says "River?" and River responds "Your afraid", but now its her voice over the intercom.

ORMAYBEMIDGETS

Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:43 AM

It does sound like she's in the room with Kaylee, I'll admit that. But I just don't think that's enough to go on. I mean, it could just be that the sound guy (or the effects guy, or the post production guy) screwed up. And you can say that Joss would have noticed that, but maybe not.

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DB: Doesn't exactly fit the thug in the profile alley. Wait, what?

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, July 13, 2006 7:09 AM

Joss said he wanted it to sound like she was in the room at first; to continue the illusion that she really had melted into the ship. Then he switched to it sounding more like the intercom, maybe as a hint that, yeah, she isn't really the ship.
I think Cavalier's point is very well made. Just wanted to say that.

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INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:43 PM

Don't forget that scene in Objects in Space, when River is walking through autumn leaves and picking up a branch. It takes her a moment to realize that she's actually in the ship and she's surrounded by the crew shouting at her and trying to take the gun away. Obviously, she wasn't reading anyone's intentions or thoughts or even hearing their voices for at least a few minutes. So it is possible to sneak up on River, if she's distracted within herself.

Re: not ratting out Jayne -- actually, I don't see why she would. She agrees with Jayne that she's a danger to them, so it's not like she blames him for his attempt to put her on a shuttle, and she has no reason to mention it for any other purpose (and she's not a tattletale by nature, I imagine).

Re: knocking Simon unconscious -- I agree with the posters who said that this was because Simon didn't know at that moment what he was going to do, so she couldn't take the chance. I got the impression, when she stared down at his unconscious body with the gun in her hand, that she was having one of her Objects in Space moments -- seeing Simon as just an object for a moment, maybe seeing the topography of the rumpled clothing as resembling foothills created by tectonic movement (or was that just me?), before she came back to reality and went to the bridge.

There was one line that River speaks to Simon when they're all on the bridge, something about being sorry she had to fire the gun to distract everyone and get them to leave the bridge. I think this is an allusion to Objects in Space, too -- "No guns".

Indigo S.

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:46 PM

She says "I had to show them." And she didn't fire a gun, Jayne did when she dropped the can on his head.

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DESKTOPHIPPIE

Thursday, July 13, 2006 3:52 PM

Just jumping in to say that we don't always think in words. Most of the times we have a jumble of images and emotions rather than any clear thoughts.

It's clear from Simon's expression in the scene that he was wary of River at the very least. He must have been thinking that he had to keep her calm. That's probably what was going through his head when he said the safe word in the bar to make her sleep. Hence River's immediate reaction.

But yes, I agree that River can hear thoughts as well as feel emotions. She mouths the words "It's crossed my mind" at the same time as Mal, which goes a long way towards proving that, as does the final scene with her and Mal, which has been mentioned above.

Desktop Hippie

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

Friday, July 14, 2006 2:37 PM

Thanks for the clarification :)

I was watching the BDM (again) with Joss's commentary on (again). I found that I get more each time I listen to the commentary, too.

One line of Joss's that I'd forgotten about but which made me laugh both times, spoken just after Book's death scene (and I'm paraphrasing here) -- "What's interesting is that Mal's reaction to his friend's death is _not_ 'I'm going to get vengeance' or 'I'm going to get justice' or 'I'm going to become a bat' ..."

LOL

Indigo S.

RIVERMADNESS

Friday, July 14, 2006 10:37 PM

You raise some good points and I agree, a Star Trek or X-men type telepath would be boring. Though River can read minds I amend my previous idea and do not believe she is a true telepath in that sense. I now believe her ability to read minds is keyed to the strength of the emotion behind the thought, the stonger the emotion the is easier it is for her to read. You are right River can read person at a glance the best example of this is her conforntaton with Badger in Shindig. She speaks in general terms but nails him to a tee. " a petty thief with delusions of standing", spent time in jail but not as much as he says " a sad little king on a sad little hill". We know River reacts to strong sudden emotions the best examples are her three dealings with reavers.
1st. In Bushwacked when the survior goes full on reaver, River screams in terror in Inaras shuttle.
2nd. The heist in ther BDM when the reavers hit the strength of thier rage plus the fear of the town people knock her of her feet.
3rd. The final confrontation in the BDM "their all made up reavers I can't shut them out" the reaver's agressive emotion when they are on the hunt hit her like a tidal wave.
I believe the most compelling example the theory happens in the BDM just after she is triggered when she is asleep in the pantry. When Mal's anger and rage flares up at Simon she wake up and is keenly lock on Mal so much so she mouth the same words as Mal. I believe she is conditioned by the Acadamy to respond to specific emotions. The one that resistance fighters might be prone too, like fear and panic or hate and anger. I blieve a lesser example is during the escape from the Acadamy, Simon was holding together while every thing was going as planned but after he set of the bouncing betty he probably started to panic about how he was going to get his comatose sister out and boom there she is wide awake and ready to go. I still believe she can project her thoughts but no more the a word or two since I believe she was created to be more of a receiver than a full fledge telepath. As for the Jayne incident in the BDM, I like to think she whispered something like "DO IT" in the back of his mind but I concede it was most likely the alcohol he was pounding down the was the final push. Finally that is why I believe Joss is a great writer, his work allows people to take different takes on the same event which lead to great discussion's.

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