Where does Firefly take place?
POSTED BY: Hans
UPDATED: Sunday, July 2, 2006 05:23
VIEWED: 62435
PAGE 11 of 18
I guess I can understand the typical SciFi fan wanting to know the ends and outs of how everything in the 'verse works. For years we have been subjected to so much technobabble from SciFi it's all many of us can think of when we watch one. I just want it to be said here that I am one of those SciFi fans and always want to know those ins-and-outs. I've even read the "physics of" for every SciFi plot that a "physics of" exist.
Maybe this has been said, but I think that Firefly is special. I don't think it matters much how they get around or how much exist for them to get around in. In Firefly it's not about how they make the journey it's the journey that's important. I don't think for one second that the creators or writers cared one lick beyond, we need a ship and some places for them to go when it came to the science of the show.
Now after saying that the answer to how much of the galaxy human's occupy is all that they need. How fast they travel in that galaxy is, as fast as the script calls for. And, how they travel that fast is very unimportant.
"If the snow on the roof is to heavy the roof will cave in, his brain is in terible danger."
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Well, I just stumbled upon this big argument, and I find that both the explanations are fraught with loopholes.
If it takes place in a Solar System, then why would they refer to "sectors?" With all the planets moving around, you couldn't define any area bigger than a planetary system, except concentric rings.
If it takes place in a galaxy, it would have to be our galaxy. And then they would know where "Earth that was" was, unless it got exploded or something. Even then, they could still go back to the old Solar system, maybe colonize Europa. Unless everybody just forgot how to find it.
Didn't they say that it takes place in a star cluster on the old Fox.com website? Or maybe on the opening explanation that was broadcasted with the first few episodes? Whatever, a star cluster would be a nice middle ground.
Anyway, now I gotta nitpick points that nobody cares about.
Quote:
Origionally posted by SaintProverbius:
Even at the speed of light, we're still talking years to get anywhere. 10-20 drives wouldn't be enough to move billions of people.
They didn't move everybody from Earth. Only a few thousand volunteers from the USA, China, and a few minor nations. They never said "Humanity had to leave Earth before it disintigrated." It could be that they were merely facing overcrowding and pollution, so some wealthy nations sent some people away. That would explain the complete lack of Hispanics on the show.
Quote:
If physics were acurate then Vira would be able to fire in a vacuum. Most modern guns have everything they need to fire in the shell(a Glock 9mm can fire in a vacuum or even under water). If many guns can do that now - how about 500 years in the future?
Vira is a submachine gun. It needs ventilation to avoid overheating, so they put holes in it. Sure, it can't be fired in space, but the makers wouldn't have cared, because nobody would want to anyways. Whatever, there have been worse design flaws. Besides, Firefly isn't really about versetile, 21st century firearms.
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I think I found the firefly intro, and it clearly says galaxy.
Here's the website:
http://www.gloomyjoe.com/firefly/
In case you don't want to surf all the way over there, here's the intro:
The War to Unite the Planets was six years done, and the victorious Alliance was spreading its control further and further throughout the galaxy. Those who had fought for independence and so bloodily lost had no choice but to live by Alliance law. Some never would, and those few found themselves drifting--flying to the furthest reaches of the galaxy, to the worlds less civilized, some barely settled, where the Alliance might not control their lives. These were hard worlds, and work was where you found it. Those who got buy lived by a simple creed: Any job, anywhere. -- Intro, "Serenity"
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Yup, that's the intro from the original unaired version of Serenity.
Industrial Looniee & Madness - http://www3.telus.net/vchrusch
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Quote:
Originally posted by SaintProverbius:Quote:
We also have Joss's comment in "Serenity: the Tenth Character" that the ship is propelled by "a fusion explosion". Basically, you're setting off a nuclear reaction behind the ship to propel it. Ain't no way that's gonna push you past lightspeed.
Okay, so first you guys were claiming there's no reactor. Now that reactor mechanism won't work? Eh? Guess what, it would be enough. We're talking about dropping a little sun out the back and riding the push from that.
I don't mean to sound ornery, but you're missing a fundamental problem here, that has been discussed above ad nauseum: the light speed barrier. I don't care HOW much thrust your "little sun out the back" generates, it is not going to push you past the light speed barrier. It's a fundamental and (as far as we know) unbreakable barrier when using a conventional drive system.
That's why most FTL drives in science fiction involve wormholes or "subspace fields" or something like that - they acknowledge that just going "real fast" is not going to be enough to break C (the speed of light). Even the fastest conventional starship will take a year to travel one light year. With distances to even nearby stars measured in multiple light years, you begin to see the problem.
NOTE: I am not saying that Serenity automatically does not have some sort of FTL drive. Whether you believe one exists or not is up to you. Maybe they have found a way of breaking the light speed barrier. I'm just saying there's more and more evidence that the drives we have seen are purely conventional ones.
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I like to think that Firefly takes place in TheSolar System. The planets and moons have been moved to create several klemperer rosettes. ( http://burtleburtle.net/bob/physics/kempler.html , see especially the 4th and 5th from the bottom...)
Yes moving planets and moons would require super-science, but I don't think it would be too difficult for a culture that had planet scale artificial gravity (mentioned in the train job) and rapid terraforming. It certainly doesn't require as much super-science as FTL travel would.
They never say how small the moons are that they terraform, but if you figure at least 500 km (below that and they tend to be irregularly shaped) then there are 23 or so rocky bodies in the solar system to start with. If you go smaller, or if you allow the creation of new ones (by smashing old ones together, or breaking up planets) then 70 seems like a reasonable figure...
For two rosette orbits, you would need a fairly wide habitable zone, or some way to warm up the worlds outside the zone (space mirrors, maybe), but nothing that would be impossible using science as we know it.
I don't have any evidence that this is the Firefly scenario, but it does have a certain explanatory power. For example, now you can take core and rim literally, and all the references to a single system suddenly make sense, and you don't even need an exodus to make it happen. (Georgia system could refer to a planet/moon system). Explains how Serenity is able to get from the rim to the core without too much trouble (distances between planets on the rim and from the rim to the core would be roughly the same order of magnitude), Earth that Was was probably 'used up' to make the core worlds.
In this situation the phrase 'a whole galaxy of planets' is just a more poetic way of saying 'a lot of planets.' I don't really have a strong argument, but the idea appeals to me.
One final note: Ariel is a moon of Uranus. Diameter 1158 km.
Ben
http://www.contretemps.net
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I will admit, I have not read this entire thread, so some of this may have been already chewed over.
I favor a star cluster, not single solar system.
I think the 'firefly effect' (gravity drive?) from the 'behind' of Serenity represents the FTL.
A single solar system with "hundreds" of planets would be a VERY unstable system ... LaGragne points intersecting, the oort cloud dumping in a drenn load of debris insystem and so forth.
Which would make navigation a total nightmare.
Yep, should be a star cluster.
If they don't have FTL, they sure got one hellva civilazition built in only 500 years. Considering the 'survivors' of Earth-That-Was would have to had to 'slow-boat' it.
Even using stasis is a strech. Which, BTW, we did not see on the show. Only a 2 week drug induced coma-like death.
Just to get to Alpha Centuri (closest to Sol System) AT light speed, it would take around 4 1/2 years.
Now each system in the cluster may have dozens of planets, moons etc ...
Another point, if Serenity does not have FTL of some sort, why 2 differant sets of engines?
The twin engines should be enough to manuver and thrust the Serenity about.
Joss ... please tell US or print a show 'bible'!
"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
(stuff cut)
If they don't have FTL, they sure got one hellva civilazition built in only 500 years. Considering the 'survivors' of Earth-That-Was would have to had to 'slow-boat' it.
Even using stasis is a strech. Which, BTW, we did not see on the show. Only a 2 week drug induced coma-like death.
Just to get to Alpha Centuri (closest to Sol System) AT light speed, it would take around 4 1/2 years.
In my totally hypothetical timeline ( www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=3267) I tried to figure out a timetable for travel to (and colonization of) a new system. A hyopthetical system 15 light years away could be reached in 30 years by a ship going 1/2 lightspeed. 30 years is a long time but not "generation ship" long. It's not impossible to imagine huge colony ships being built to take the earth's population from one system to another. Even if it takes several centuries to develop the technology and make the exodus, that still could give you 200+ years of civilization in the new system before the events on the series. A lot can happen in 200 years - just think of what New York was like in 1804! And since all but the core worlds seem to be underdeveloped colonies, that seems a reasonable length of time.
I never imagined that stasis ever came into it. The journey from one system to another is for most people a one-way, one-time trip.
Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
Another point, if Serenity does not have FTL of some sort, why 2 differant sets of engines?
The twin engines should be enough to manuver and thrust the Serenity about.
Joss ... please tell US or print a show 'bible'!
"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"
I don't think it's impossible to visulaize two sets of conventional engines on one ship, one used for maneuvering, landing, and in-atmosphere flight, with the other used for the high speeds needed for interplanetary (not interstellar) travel. In fact, that's exactly what we seem to see on screen. The fact that they used the "big engine" in-atmosphere ("Serenity"), not as any sort of "warp drive" but just to accelerate very fast away from the Reavers, seems (to me) to confirm that it is a strictly conventional drive system...one that gives a big push that is fine for interplanetary travel, but has no special properties to break that light speed barrier.
And yes, I would love a series bible as well!
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Although the arguments for and against a single-system are very logical and convincing for the most part, there is one little factoid that has me convinced it must be multiple star systems.
It was made clear in 'The Message' that THERE ARE NO ALIENS in the Firefly universe. Now we all know that aliens probably don't live in our own system, so the only way the human race can conclude that there are no aliens is if they had been to many other star systems, and found none with aliens.
'nuff said.
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Where does Firefly take place? I don't rightly know. I know Farscape took place in New Zealand and I am pretty fair certain Firefly didn't take place there.
Oh, wait a minute, you were talking about the place pictured in the show with all the planets and space and things...
I go with hypothesis #2. I get the idea that humanity spread out from Earth-that-was, with the Core planets being the first settled and mankind going further and further out, pushing the Rim back. That assumes FTL travel, of course.
I don't see a way hypothesis #1 could work. They clearly haven't run out of planets to teraform, either.
Yes, I studied physics at University. Don't tell anyone.
"We'll have to call it "early quantum state
phenomenon." Only way to fit 5000 species
of mammal on the same boat. "
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