Where does Firefly take place?
POSTED BY: Hans
UPDATED: Sunday, July 2, 2006 05:23
VIEWED: 62435
PAGE 13 of 18
Quote:
Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
Back in October I put together a summary of arguments for and against FTL in Firefly at http://jack.p5.org.uk/ftl-firefly.en.html
Corrections welcome.
Very good summary! Having started this thread I'm glad to see lots of people are interested in the same issue.
As a supporter of the one-system theory, and since you included Mal's "whole galaxy of earths" line from an intro, you should probably include the line's from Books intro...
“After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar systemand hundreds of new 'Earths' were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed 'The Alliance' and decided all the planets had to join under their rule...After the war, many of the Independents...drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control.”
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:Quote:
Originally posted by wydraz:
I wish Joss would stop this silly argument for us. But I think he already has. Joss has made the statement that there are no aliens known to mankind, and mankind can only conlude this if they've been all over the galaxy!
Not necessarily. The statement means what it says, regardless of where or how much of the galaxy mankind has searched. None known, means none known. It don't mean their ain't none, or even we have explored the entire galaxy.
"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"
Actually, I think the lack of alien life is more likely to be evidence in favour of the one-system theory. If you happen to believe that alien life is possible or probable, but none have been seen on Firefly, then that means they are probably limited to a very small area of space (i.e. one system). If humanity was spread out over hundreds of systems, you would have thought they'd encounter some sort of alien life form, even if it was nothing more than an exotic cow...
Hans
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I actually had a conversation with a physicist about this (this question has been weighing on me as my rpgame is going to start soon and geography is important).
Either a.) it takes place among many solar systems.
or.
b.) Firefly does not attempt to remotely agree with physics.
All the theories I've heard for a single system involve using larger stars to increase the "life-zone" as if this is not done, more than 7/9 the planets in a system would be uninhabbitable. This could be done - but the skies would all be a different color and the sun would be a different size (on mars the sun looks 1/3 the size it does on earth). So clearly, either all of these places that Serenity visits are in multiple solar systems - or Firefly just doesn't take astro-physics into account (which is a very viable option).
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Thanks for the Core comment wydraz, I've updated the summary.
I don't understand your aliens comment.
--
I am Jack's username
Monarch (Firefly sim): < http://tenforward.slasims.com/viewforum.php?f=104>
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Thanks Hans, I completely missed Book's intro. I've updated the summary.
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I am Jack's username
Monarch (Firefly sim): < http://tenforward.slasims.com/viewforum.php?f=104>
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Quote:
Originally posted by zeke023:
I actually had a conversation with a physicist about this (this question has been weighing on me as my rpgame is going to start soon and geography is important).
Either a.) it takes place among many solar systems.
or.
b.) Firefly does not attempt to remotely agree with physics.
(stuff cut)
Not being an astrophysicist I can't comment on whether a system with 70+ habitable planets would be a.) extremely rare or b.) totally impossible. If b, then we either accept the multiple systems theory, or accept that Firefly takes place in a universe where the rules don't apply (not very satisfactory).
However, while some people fixate on the viability of such a system, for me it is the whole faster-than-light issue that makes me bang my head against the wall. There are many respectable physicists who believe that FTL travel might very well be impossible. While there are many theories floating around about how FTL might work, it involves a level of scientific ability that is well advanced from what we have now. As others have pointed out, if you accept FTL travel as commonplace in the Firefly universe, you're accepting a level of superscience that could equally be applied to the level or terraforming that might be needed to create a habitable system with many habitable planets (and yes, vice versa).
But even if you disagree about how viable FTL travel is, there's still that giant elephant standing there that everyone seems to forget: There's not one single on-screen evidence of FTL travel taking place. While the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you have to ask how reasonable it is that there's no mention of how they travel from world to world. In 14 episodes, no warp drives, no stargates, no wormholes...no line from Wash about "approaching the jump point", no line from Kaylee about "the hyperdrive is down!"...only what appears to be an enirely conventional propulsion system.
Hans
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon (regarding aliens)
None known, means none known. It don't mean their ain't none, or even we have explored the entire galaxy.
You forget that the fact that 'there are no aliens' is commonly accepted by the human race in Firefly. They even mention this in one of the beginning scenes of "The Message". As I said before, how can the human race be so presumptuous as to believe that there are no aliens (not just that they haven't found any) unless they have explored a good number of star systems?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hans:
However, while some people fixate on the viability of such a system, for me it is the whole faster-than-light issue that makes me bang my head against the wall. There are many respectable physicists who believe that FTL travel might very well be impossible. While there are many theories floating around about how FTL might work, it involves a level of scientific ability that is well advanced from what we have now. As others have pointed out, if you accept FTL travel as commonplace in the Firefly universe, you're accepting a level of superscience that could equally be applied to the level or terraforming that might be needed to create a habitable system with many habitable planets (and yes, vice versa).
But even if you disagree about how viable FTL travel is, there's still that giant elephant standing there that everyone seems to forget: There's not one single on-screen evidence of FTL travel taking place. While the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you have to ask how reasonable it is that there's no mention of how they travel from world to world. In 14 episodes, no warp drives, no stargates, no wormholes...no line from Wash about "approaching the jump point", no line from Kaylee about "the hyperdrive is down!"...only what appears to be an enirely conventional propulsion system.
Hans
First off, I am one of those nuts who thinks that FTL is possible. Part of that is optimism, but part of that is from following the debate over
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0009013
The issues have all been technical and several later papers have addressed them. But the key point is that it is consistent with what we (think we) know about the space time manifold.
I'll say it again, the issues are technical, rather than theoretical. It looks like it is doable, (rather than impossible,) just we don't know how yet to build the gear to create the effect.
"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"
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Just tossing my .02 into the pot. These are mostly random observations flung out at, well, random.
I think Serenity uses some kind of gravitic drive. In The Train Job, Kaylee mentions (IIRC) a "grav thrust" or somesuch.
The main drive is something called a "standard radion core" by River in the same episode. That sounds like technobabble in line with some kind of fusion reactor, a la Mr. Whedon's commentary.
Fusion reactors do require fuel, and they do produce waste. Serenity doesn't seem to have a hydrogen scoop or the necessary equipment to filter whatever it might take from e.g. skimmin a gas giant, so it makes sense that they'd have to buy fuel for the ship.
There are lots of problems with the science of the show. Fairly rapid terraforming, gravity creation, etc. For me, the second worst is the notion that the ship's artificial gravity would suddenly experience a hiccough as the ship entered a planet's atmosphere, as though the planet's gravity wouldn't have affected the ship before that point. (The worst is gravity generation in the first place. What, can they manipulate an object's mass or something? If so, then FTL is easy.)
That whole, wonderful, golden glow emitted by Serenity's aft end seems a lot like science fantasy to me. This glowing golden light/gas pours out for a while, then suddenly turns into a little puff of light blue-green light when the ship zings off. Obviously, this is no form of transportation known to modern man, and it certainly doesn't look like a ship riding an explosion to me. It could easily be some kind of FTL drive, or not. When I first saw it, I assumed that it was the show's version of going to warp, so I don't really buy the whole "we've never seen them go FTL" argument--even if the main drive is occasionally used for SlowerTL movement.
My take? Joss and crew were more interested in the people than the science, which is why the science is almost never mentioned. Captain dummy talk is ostensibly used for Mal, but it's also used so the audience doesn't have to sit through a pile of Treknobabble and, I expect, so the writers are free to worry about more important stuff.
So, until a movie or new show comes along to tell us otherwise, I don't think we'll ever reach a better answer than, "Firefly occurs within a nebulous collection of planets and moons somewhere in space." More to the point, I really don't think Firefly will ever qualify as hard scifi. It's rubber science at best.
_______________
"Yep. That's a cow fetus."
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Just take a look at the star map photo that guy is selling in his press kit. That there is a galaxy my friend
You'll also notice that in the press kit are little foil things with freeze dried "space food" You can get these at a lot of science stores, and museum gift shops. All the press packet people did was slap a sticker on there that said "Firefly" I think it's reasonalbe that the press packet guys had no idea where in space the show was set, and the star map came from discoverychannel.com or something.
I'm not saying firefly is set in the whole galaxy, i'm saying that that's not wholely conclusive evidence.
"Oh my god it's grotesqe! and here's a thing in a jar."
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