Dead Terrorists

POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Friday, June 30, 2006 06:11
VIEWED: 8309
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SIGNYM

Saturday, June 10, 2006 11:04 AM

Quote:
You'd rather see freedom's defeat?

Typical straw-man. Geezer, tsk tsk, We've spoken about ths before. Now go to the sink and don't come back until your rhetoric is clean!

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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 10, 2006 11:17 AM

Quote:
Hero's friend died, my father and several relatives spent years fighting in WWII, my brother-in-law and many of my friends died in Vietnam, and I spent a year there...just so you could have the right to be sarcastic without the secret police taking you off to a cell and putting a bullet in your head. You're welcome.

Ah there's the rub. Geezer, I hate to pop your bubble but Vietnam, like Iraq didn't guarantee anyone's freedom. Vietnam DID eventually go Communist and what happened?

..... Nothing. Yep- nothing. The dominoes didn't fall. Japan wasn't threatened. Shipping wasn't endangered. The USA government wasn't overrun by gooks and slant-eyes. I sorrowfully conclude that the 50,000 American dead including your BIL... and the many hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese dead... was really all for nothing. And I reluctantly ask you to show me otherwise. Reluctantly because this (not Iraq or GW Bush) is what you've been arguing all along.

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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

GEEZER

Saturday, June 10, 2006 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Ah there's the rub. Geezer, I hate to pop your bubble but Vietnam, like Iraq didn't guarantee anyone's freedom. Vietnam DID eventually go Communist and what happened?

..... Nothing. Yep- nothing. The dominoes didn't fall. Japan wasn't threatened. Shipping wasn't endangered. The USA government wasn't overrun by gooks and slant-eyes. I sorrowfully conclude that the 50,000 American dead including your BIL... and the many hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese dead... was really all for nothing. And I reluctantly ask you to show me otherwise. Reluctantly because this (not Iraq or GW Bush) is what you've been arguing all along.

Well, first off there is the concept that the very act of fighting for something worthwhile has a value of its own, regardless of the outcome.

You also have to wonder how many Communist insurgencies didn't get off the ground because the Soviet Union and China were spending all their trouble-making budgets in Vietnam. If we'd just decided in 1960 not to fight there maybe the dominoes would have fallen. Maybe that 15 year delay - that show of resolve - kept the chain reaction from starting.

"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

CITIZEN

Saturday, June 10, 2006 3:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Maybe that 15 year delay - that show of resolve - kept the chain reaction from starting.

Then why didn't Communism 'beating' Capitalism even given its resolve not kick start more revolutions? If it can happen there why not here sort of thing?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, June 10, 2006 4:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Causal,

It wouldn't have been a referendum on dubya except Zero chose to lead off with this:
Quote:
"Steadfast in our purpose, we now press on. We have known freedom's price. We have shown freedom's power. And in this great conflict, my fellow Americans, we will see freedom's victory." G.W. Bush, 2002.

You'd rather see freedom's defeat?

"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

I think either way freedom gets defeated here, that is not what this war is about.

al-Qaeda and these other groups wouldn't exist if there was the freedom to stand up against the system in countrys like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, etc

Islamic Jihad had it's start as trying to form an opposition political party in Egypt, Bin Laden was chased from Saudi Arabia for talking about reforming politics there.....

US foreign policy ( post second world war ) has been instrumental in keeping dictators and despots in power all over the world, money, intell, military assistance, etc has eroded any and all oppostion to the guy the White House picked to run that country... with two exceptions Cuba where the threw Batista out and managed to resist the aftermath, and Iran where the US overthrew an elected government to put the Shah back in who with US aid, wiped out all opposition but the mullahs who eventually took power.

And look at the relations the US has with either of those countrys...

and the sad thing is it didn't have to be that way, Castro and Cuba only went for Soviet aid after being threatened by the US ( the US has a long history of intervening in Cuba and backing ' their guy " no matter what an ass he is "

and Iran may have been brought around. The hostage crisis only demanded two things 1) the Shah be handed over for trial ( the US has made similar demands of other before and since ) and the US publicly states they wouldn't step in and try to reinstall " their guy " again... of course you did neither

freedom is also determining the path for ones own country WITHOUT foreign interferrance. If freedom was the objective, history would not have played out like this. It is not the fault of the soldiers on either side.... they have all bought a story, a line, propaganda.

" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html

GINOBIFFARONI

Saturday, June 10, 2006 4:08 PM

I notice that the taboo of publishing pictures of dead / captured soldiers is being ignored again ?

I suppose the objectors will only come out when its video of US marines hanging from lamp posts or some such thing.

" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html

GEEZER

Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Then why didn't Communism 'beating' Capitalism even given its resolve not kick start more revolutions? If it can happen there why not here sort of thing?

Perhaps because by 1975 people had seen enough of Communism in the real world to know that it didn't deliver on its promise of a worker's paradise. I'm not sure if this would have been the case in the early '60s.

"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I notice that the taboo of publishing pictures of dead / captured soldiers is being ignored again ?

I suppose the objectors will only come out when its video of US marines hanging from lamp posts or some such thing.

Another attempt to demonize and de-humanize 'the enemy'. I suppose some will say it's the least we can do seeing as we got to see his killing of an innocent online, and that's what monsters deserve.
I wonder what the makers of the monster deserve, the same?
Once again; NO MAN'S KILLING SHOULD BE CELEBRATED!

But hey, maybe that's just me.

On holliday

Chrisisall

RUE

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:36 AM

Slick,

My parents survived Nazi Germany and Russia. My grandparents survived worse. They fought for their freedom and their country on their soil. They REALLY fought for freedom.

Vietnam? Iraq? That's just the US being a dick with other countries.

GEEZER

Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Slick,

My parents survived Nazi Germany and Russia. My grandparents survived worse. They fought for their freedom and their country on their soil. They REALLY fought for freedom.

Vietnam? Iraq? That's just the US being a dick with other countries.

I'm trying for a logical correlation as to how your ancestors fighting for freedom makes the US a dick, but can't find it.

My ancestors have fought for freedom in every American war since the Revolution, so does that trump your two generations when it comes to opinions about whether the US is a dick? No. It has noting to do with it.

I'm sure that SignyM could come up with the proper name for your argumentative fallacy.

"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

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