Jayne's first betrayal

POSTED BY: Dantien
UPDATED: Sunday, June 17, 2007 03:46
VIEWED: 14959
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YT

Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zisker:
I think it was left ambiguous intentionally.

I concur. Nonetheless, Jayne is loyal to Mal. Dobson offered him enough money to buy his own ship, one better than a Firefly, but it wasn't good enough to turn on the captain. Jayne could have been in charge at the end of the pilot but, to a large extent, "in charge" means "responsible" and, I don't think he wants to be. Jayne (like Inara, Mal, Book, probably Wash &, with one exception, Zoe) doesn't like complications.

And Jayne's first betrayal, that we see, is of Marko. Mal knew exactly what he was getting, and presumably could have left Jayne behind at any subsequent port. Instead, in the deal with Patience, Mal puts himself and Zoe under Jayne's gun, even though he's pretty sure Dobson tried to make a deal with Jayne. Not only is Jayne loyal to Mal, but Mal is willing to bet his & Zoe's life on that loyalty.

Slipping Dobson a knife was plausibly deniable.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

J6NGO1977

Saturday, June 3, 2006 1:20 AM

Jaynes first big Betrayal is in 'Arial'. He was turned in Serenity. He blew away patience henchmen in serenity coz he was still loyal and mal still payed him. In 'Arial' he sells out Simon and River, to the alliance, and Mal sees this. That's why he wants to blow Jayne out the airlock. However that's the turning point for Jayne. He realises the crew of Serenity are worth more than a Pay Check.

TRAVELER

Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:17 PM

In Jaynetown we see Jayne actually being honest after he kills his expartner. He could have kept the pretence of helping the people with no one to dispute him. Mal would never have finked on him. But what did Jayne do? He pushed his own stayue down. I'll admit Jayne is no angel, but I think the rest of the crew are slowly turning him around. As for Jayne being afraid of responsibility the first thing he does when Mal is away from the ship is try to take command. Causing Simon to drug him in one episode. Also being told you can be killed by a thought tends to keep you honest around River. Or maybe I'm just a romantic.

And what do we do with the chain of command?

TRAVELER

Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:17 PM

In Jaynetown we see Jayne actually being honest after he kills his expartner. He could have kept the pretence of helping the people with no one to dispute him. Mal would never have finked on him. But what did Jayne do? He pushed his own stayue down. I'll admit Jayne is no angel, but I think the rest of the crew are slowly turning him around. As for Jayne being afraid of responsibility the first thing he does when Mal is away from the ship is try to take command. Causing Simon to drug him in one episode. Also being told you can be killed by a thought tends to keep you honest around River. Or maybe I'm just a romantic.

And what do we do with the chain of command?

CAVSCOUT

Tuesday, June 6, 2006 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by YT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zisker:
I think it was left ambiguous intentionally.

I concur. Nonetheless, Jayne is loyal to Mal. Dobson offered him enough money to buy his own ship, one better than a Firefly, but it wasn't good enough to turn on the captain. Jayne could have been in charge at the end of the pilot but, to a large extent, "in charge" means "responsible" and, I don't think he wants to be. Jayne (like Inara, Mal, Book, probably Wash &, with one exception, Zoe) doesn't like complications.

Is Jayne "loyal" to Mal or is he just afraid of what would happen if he screws him over?

-CavScout
"Well I imagine if it were fear, my eyes would be wider."

RAVENHAIR

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:46 AM

Nonetheless, Jayne is loyal to Mal. Dobson offered him enough money to buy his own ship, one better than a Firefly, but it wasn't good enough to turn on the captain. Jayne could have been in charge at the end of the pilot but, to a large extent, "in charge" means "responsible" and, I don't think he wants to be. Jayne (like Inara, Mal, Book, probably Wash &, with one exception, Zoe) doesn't like complications.

Slipping Dobson a knife was plausibly deniable.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

I've always wondered about the money Dobson offers Jayne. It seemed to me to be a great deal of money for Jayne to turn down. I think I read a fanfic somewhere that Jayne does take the offer but Mal shoots the fed so no one is the wiser(except for Mal) about Jayne's betrayal. And Jayne expresses relief b/c he was starting to have second thoughts.

My first impression of the pilot was that Jayne, despite all the mercenary attitude, did respect Mal. In Ariel I get the impression that he really didn't think turning in the Tams was about Mal and loyalty. He was just getting rid of trouble.

Anyway, my .02.

*****
Mal:We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough.

YT

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 3:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ravenhair:
In Ariel I get the impression that he really didn't think turning in the Tams was about Mal and loyalty. He was just getting rid of trouble.

Yah, that's my take on it, too. And that's why Mal felt he had to make his point unmistakable.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

SPACEANJL

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 10:19 AM

Definitely concur on the above. Jayne was trying to protect 'his' crew by getting rid of the trouble element, (and the guy moving in on the girl he fancies.) Ariel, he thinks that the knife attack by River is personal, and that sways him, though she is just going for the logo. Also, he doesn't kill her in the Maidenhead, and she doesn't kill him, either. If he is the Cordelia character, then he's going to be a good guy, even if it makes him grouchy.

SpaceAnJL

FLAME

Friday, June 9, 2006 6:42 AM

OK, I'd just like to say that I don't think we can judge FIREFLY by whatever Joss did in BUFFY or ANGEL. I see a lot of people doing that, making character comparisons between the shows, and I don't think it's fair to Joss or FIREFLY to think he can only make a certain set type of characters, who will always behave in the same predetermined ways. I think he would have taken FIREFLY and the BDH in new directions.

With that said, Jayne, like all of the crew (except maybe Kaylee) is a mixture of good and bad. I don't think he has a "heart of gold" but he's not a big badass, either. C'mon, his mama knits him hats (and he wears them), she calls him her "dear boy," he feels bad about using his fame to hoodwink the mudders, he sends money home to his family, he brushes Helen's hair in HEART OF GOLD, and he whines and cowers like a baby when they fly through Reaver space.

~ Flame ~

SERENITY on the big screen in Raleigh, NC, June 22, 2006!!
http://www.monkeyshinesbeadery.com/serenity/shindig/

J6NGO1977

Friday, June 9, 2006 8:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Flame:
OK, I'd just like to say that I don't think we can judge FIREFLY by whatever Joss did in BUFFY or ANGEL. I see a lot of people doing that, making character comparisons between the shows, and I don't think it's fair to Joss or FIREFLY to think he can only make a certain set type of characters, who will always behave in the same predetermined ways. I think he would have taken FIREFLY and the BDH in new directions.

With that said, Jayne, like all of the crew (except maybe Kaylee) is a mixture of good and bad. I don't think he has a "heart of gold" but he's not a big badass, either. C'mon, his mama knits him hats (and he wears them), she calls him her "dear boy," he feels bad about using his fame to hoodwink the mudders, he sends money home to his family, he brushes Helen's hair in HEART OF GOLD, and he whines and cowers like a baby when they fly through Reaver space.

~ Flame ~

SERENITY on the big screen in Raleigh, NC, June 22, 2006!!
http://www.monkeyshinesbeadery.com/serenity/shindig/

Yeh but wouldn't you whine and cower like a baby if you flew through Reaver space??? :) Jayne is a hard man but he knows Reavers have numbers and the only way to put a reaver down is to make sure they are dead. I think after Arial, Jayne was a changed man.

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