Wonders of Ancient Knowledge

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Thursday, May 25, 2006 16:20
VIEWED: 4678
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ANTHONYT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:17 AM

"Star Trek didn't have computers you could keep in your pocket when it first aired. The Computer in the Original Series and indeed all series as far as I can see, is based on a main server system with dumb terminals. Pretty 1960's'ish that. The Science Fiction is merely in bestowing more processing power on the machines than currently possible, which is something done in just about every type of fiction that has a computer in it."

Star Trek TOS did in fact have portable computers in it. Or, perhaps more accurately, portable electronic devices that could only work if they were computerized. This includes the Tricorder, the hand-held Universal Translator, and something resembling a PDA upon which Kirk signed his orders. These devices were not strictly pocket sized, but were satchel or lap-top sized. Frequently they were seen to act independently of the main computer, indicating they had seperate computing capacity.

As to the subject of slaves in Egypt...

As more and more evidence comes to light, it becomes less and less apparent that slaves were used for large scale construction projects in Ancient Egypt. Rather, it seems likely that construction was a duty given to a portion of the citizenry at large. Of course, I expect that if you didn't do what the pharoah wanted, you'd be executed. On the other hand, that is true of most citizenry who live under a king's (or emperor's) rule.

There is even increasing (if controversial) evidence that the Isrealites freed in the story of Moses were originally a mercenary arm of the Egyptian military.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:28 AM

Hey Cybersnark,

I have believed for a long time that the ark was a power generating device. I felt that the reason it was deadly to touch the ark, and the reason the priests who dealt with it wore special sandals and used poles, was for insulative purposes against threat of electrical discharge.

But of course I don't have a shred of evidence to support it.

As to lost ancient civilizations...

I vaguely remember a snippet from a History Channel special that was provocative.

Some Spanish conquistadores stopped at a small island (presumably to resupply.) There they were greeted by natives. Over time, the message was conveyed by the natives that they were not natives, but rather the descendants of refugees from an island disaster. They believed the Spanish might be from their long lost culture, and brought forth documents hoping that the Spanish could read them. The Spanish could not, in fact, read them. After the natives produced no gold, they were slaughtered, their documents burned, and the Spanish moved on. (This was SOP for the Spanish at the time.)

I wish I could remember more about this History Channel special. The two things I thought of when I saw it were:

1) Damn Spanish! Why'd you have to destroy those documents?!
And
2) I wonder what age-old island civilization those people belonged to...

Of course, we have a preponderance of island cities buried or drowned in various catastrophes, and that only serves to muddy the waters.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

KWICKO

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:33 AM

On the Egyptian pyramids thing, there's some new and different thinking going around on how they were built. There's a book I heard about - don't remember who wrote it or what it's called, but it came out in the last year or so - that basically chronicles all the great civilizations, and traces their spread and influence based on WHAT THEY DRANK. Radical idea, right? It seems a bit prepostrous, but the author made a pretty good case of it when he was describing it.

We know the Egyptians brewed beer. Apparently, they brewed quite a lot of it, and got good at it. So the author's premise is that, far from being slaves to the Pharoahs, the pyramid builders were volunteers, and were paid well, in beer. He backs it up with stone "chit sheets", showing various payments to various workers, and so on. Anyway, it got my attention and gave me a new insight into one little part of the pyramids' history and construction.

Guess it just goes to show that we're never so smart - especially about the past - that we can't learn something new...

Mike

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right."
- Laurens van der Post

RUE

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:46 AM

I googled nommos and found this:

Nommos
Whatever you're looking for
you can get it on eBay.
www.eBay.com

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

RPLACKETT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:06 AM

I have to say my favourite bits of aincient tech are from the aincient greek period... the mechanical celestial computer, the parabolic mirror, a basic steam engine, the design for a gas compressor... those guys really REALLY knew their stuff. If they had coupled it to the drive for profit/efficiency then we could have had the industrial revolution a thousand years early. I suppose culture has a lot to do with that though, these were generally philasophical curios rather than industrial machienery. Interesting what-ifs though.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Star Trek TOS did in fact have portable computers in it. Or, perhaps more accurately, portable electronic devices that could only work if they were computerized. This includes the Tricorder, the hand-held Universal Translator, and something resembling a PDA upon which Kirk signed his orders. These devices were not strictly pocket sized, but were satchel or lap-top sized. Frequently they were seen to act independently of the main computer, indicating they had seperate computing capacity.

Actually now you're moving in to the realm of Science Fact being used to support Science Fiction. Androids in Star Trek couldn't function without computers, but they weren't computers and you can't have a non-human sized android. Science Fact says you can't have an android without a computer, Science Fiction says "they're androids, not computers, get over it"

.

However:
Tricorders (according to cannon material) worked with the ships computer, as an external scanning device that used the ships computer to do the major processing. Also the original Tricorders were a scanning device, there's no real need for any circuitry that could be considered as a computer in the TOS version.

They had remote computing in the Sixties as well.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:18 PM

"Tricorders (according to cannon material) worked with the ships computer, as an external scanning device that used the ships computer to do the major processing. Also the original Tricorders were a scanning device, there's no real need for any circuitry that could be considered as a computer in the TOS version."

I have to disagree with you here, Citizen. The Tricorders were sometimes used when there was no communications and/or no ship available. This makes the ship's computer a non-element in their operation.

As for human-shaped androids being the only computerized entities shown, you might be neglecting the Nomad probe, smaller than a human and not shaped like one. Of course, that might be more accurately described as a 'machine intelligence' so we'll ignore it.

Finally, If you want to discount the tricorder as a dumb scanning device without a computer element, you are certainly free to do so. The fact that it scanned objects and identified their constituent molecular composition indicates to me that the tricorders, independent of the ship's computer, were 'computing' their data. Analysis was performed by these little devices. So you can call it 'scanning electronics that analyze substances and report on their composition' if you want. I'll just call it a portable computer coupled to a scanner and move on with my day.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

CYBERSNARK

Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Of course, we have a preponderance of island cities buried or drowned in various catastrophes, and that only serves to muddy the waters.

I just wanted to admire this line one more time.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

CITIZEN

Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:20 PM

Anthony:
A Microscope can take in light and we can then observe cells with it. A scanning device can take in huge amounts of data and present it without ever once needing to perform computations on that data.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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