The Battle of Serenity Valley

POSTED BY: ManiacNumberOne
UPDATED: Sunday, February 1, 2004 21:11
VIEWED: 10931
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WILLIAMX

Monday, December 29, 2003 7:21 PM

No CIB for me . . . 31v not elligable. Too bad too cuz my damn ruck was heavy heavy, and 25 miles is a long way to walk in 12 hours. (31v is a deleted army MOS, tactical communications. I've been out a long time . . .) I do have a 7th ID patch for my right sleeve, Air Assault wings and a Manchu belt buckle (Keep up the Fire), but that's neither here nor there . . .

It was never really made clear what the point of the battle was, but valley's are typically choke points. Once the indies lost control of the air/space they became doomed, since they Alliance could just go over them (verticle evelopment) surround and starve, shell, bomb them to submission.

Could be the alliance had any number of reasons not to WMD them, but I doubt public opinion was one of them . . .

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernMerc:
Oh, and if Book IS Gen. Wilkins...omg what will Mal do when he finds out?

Hmmm - assuming that General Wilkins plan was so smart and shiny and all, wouldn't he have got a few pictures of himself in them there books?

I could buy Book (no pun intended) being someone in the Alliance, but surely everyone would recognise the General that won the war, or at least wonder why he looked so familiar.

Speaking of that cut scene from Serenity - wouldn't it have been a little too info dump? Simon, being smart, would have been taught history no doubt.

Given history is written by the victors, I have little doubt he would have been taught about Serenity by rote. Hence, the only reason to look it up would be for the viewers. A good cut methinks.

"I threw up on your bed"

GUNRUNNER

Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:55 PM

On the subject of those landing ships we really can't assume that they are defenseless ships. Modern day landing ships carry Surface to Air missiles, Close in weapon systems, deck guns, rocket launchers, and even anti-ship mines. The bigger ones have squadrons of jet fighters or anti-ship missiles! Also since those landing ship were probably coming from a warship in orbit we could safely assume there are some interceptors stationed up there to interdict any CAS aircraft. Plus the alliance probably has some shiny high tech man portable SAM or small air defense vehicles like the present day Avenger or Roland systems.

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:
Speaking of that cut scene from Serenity - wouldn't it have been a little too info dump? Simon, being smart, would have been taught history no doubt. Given history is written by the victors, I have little doubt he would have been taught about Serenity by rote. Hence, the only reason to look it up would be for the viewers. A good cut methinks.

I'm going to call myself an idiot before anyone else does. Battle of Serenity was set 6 years before "Serenity", right?

I'm guessing that puts Simon a little too old to still be being taught history as a compulsory subject. The point still remains valid, I would find it hard to believe that the turning point in a war that had been going on for five years or more didn't register enough with him not to need to look it up (I'm going on the basis that River mentions Independent soldiers in the flashback in Safe - "11 years ago").

"I threw up on your bed"

SOUTHERNMERC

Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:48 PM

Upon further reflection, I believe Book is NOT Gen. Wilkins, but possibly a Judge or Magistrate. Someone that deals with criminals alot (hence the information on criminal dealings), and would be very important to the Alliance (as shown in "Safe").

My best guess there would be the FF equivalent to my towns important historical figure: Judge Parker, called the "Hanging Judge." Yes, no, maybe?

WMD? Probably, as was said earlier, there was something important in that area, and so did NOT want it damaged. While it has been hinted at before, bio weapons use was mentioned in "Trash," such weapons DO leave a mess to contend with.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

FIREFLYWILDCARD1

Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:50 PM

Interesting discussion.

Here's my two cents: As has been noted before, the Independents probably ran out of supplies and/or ways to supply their troops trapped in Serenity Valley. Also I think the explosions that were taking place as the ships landed were caused by rockets being fired from those ships.

The issue of the Indies' brass selling them out is an interesting one. The troops probably felt that they were sold out but there might not have been any actual bribing/selling out going on. I think that if I were as dedicated as the enlisted Indies seemed to be, I would feel like I was sold out when told to lay down my weapons. The other part of the selling out issue, (and I believe it's been mentioned), is that the troops probably felt abandoned by those who weren't actually at the front fighting.

I'm going to make myself look like an ignorant fool with this question, but here goes anyways. Who is General Richard Wilkins? Is he an actual historical figure? Or was he in one of Joss's other shows (I don't watch Buffy or Angel)? I tried doing a google search and all I get is this thread.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fireflywildcard1:
Interesting discussion.
I'm going to make myself look like an ignorant fool with this question, but here goes anyways. Who is General Richard Wilkins? I tried doing a google search and all I get is this thread.

Yay! We're the font for all knowledge regarding Richard Wilkins! Go Firefly, it's your Birthday.

ANKHAGOGO

Sunday, February 1, 2004 9:11 PM

I'm going to make myself look like an ignorant fool with this question, but here goes anyways. Who is General Richard Wilkins? Is he an actual historical figure? Or was he in one of Joss's other shows..

Well, I had to go look just to make sure I didn't look like a big retard, but I thought the name sounded familiar, and yep...Richard Wilkins III is the Mayor on Buffy.

As to the rest of the discussion, I have mixed ideas. I don't know that I think the troops were literally sold out, though I wouldn't discount the idea completely. But that's because I'd rather think we --er, they --were betrayed than they just couldn't fight hard enough, if that makes any sort of sense.

There are, as someone pointed out, always the political aspects to consider, but I tend to get pragmatic, so here's a very basic thought:
Wars cost money. Lots of it.
The Alliance forces were probably very well funded by Blue Sun & such, and I'd imagine that the Browncoats were backed by, oh, say, Frank's Truckstop, or someone equally influential. That is to say, I'm willing to bet the Independents were having serious money issues. Sure, they may have been far more determined to win (if Mal's any indication), but all the determination in the 'verse ain't gonna win you a war if your troops starve cause you can't afford to feed em.
Could be the brass at Browncoat HQ knew they were broke and realized they couldn't keep up the fighting any more. Could be the Alliance found a way to cut off the Independent's cash flow and threatened something heinous if they didn't surrender right quick.
Combine lack of funds with whatever political manuvering was going on and you've got a surefire receipe for defeat.

Ankhagogo

"She was naked....and all--articulate!"

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