Bush to send troops to border
POSTED BY: rklenseth
UPDATED: Friday, May 19, 2006 00:56
VIEWED: 8734
PAGE 4 of 8
I like your quote "Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity"
Not sure you understand it. So here is the definition
NOUN:
pl. hu·man·i·ties
Humans considered as a group; the human race.
The condition or quality of being human.
The quality of being humane; benevolence.
A humane characteristic, attribute, or act.
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Future Mrs. Fillion...
What would you do, then?
Feed the kid forever? Feed his family forever?
You wouldn't recommend to them where they could find a job?
Do you patrol your city dispensing Justice?
Just how, exactly, are you more connected than me?
What is your solution to these problems?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I withdraw AntonyT. Not because you have "won". Not because I don't have an answer, but because I choose NOT to discuss this issue with someone that suggests a paper route.
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If...
The kid has no family... (My first suggestion was to recommend to the family where they could find a job.)
And if...
The government won't take the kid... (My second suggestion was to place the kid in the government's custody.)
Then my options are to
A) Adopt the kid myself and support him indefinitely,
Or
B) Suggest to the kid some way he can earn money to survive.
Now, maybe you have a great alternative that you refuse to share with me because you don't like my opinions. I'll never know.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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The ignorance displayed in Anthony's response to me is so staggering that I'm a little shocked and not completely sure where to begin. First, I suggest that you should register as a Republican. Get it over with, you aren't an independent and the Democratic Party is too rational for you.
I do not advocate a sub class of dirt poor illegal immigrants. What I advocate is guest worker status for the illegal immigrants already here, and a means for Mexicans who want to come to Te US and work to do so legally. I have no idea why you would mention Wisconsin, one look at a map should tell you that Wisconsin does not have a Mexican immigration problem. Oh wait, maybe you thought you were being clever. You failed in that regard.
I grew up in El Paso and have lived in Texas my entire life so I'm well aware that illegal immigration is not a threat to our national security or to our economy. Although I don't approve of paying illegal immigrants sub minimum wage rates, it is widely done as has actually benefited the economies of the border states. So, these people aren't a military threat to us, they aren't damaging our economy, where is this great threat that requires a deployment of 10,000 soldiers? There is only one reason to overreact this way, and that is for political gain. The only people who believe this is a crisis are politicians trying to scare up votes, paranoid fools who think our security is at risk, and racist xenophobes ( which group do you fall into?). The reason this hasn't been an issue nationwide until recently is because it isn't a real issue, it's a fake issue designed to get people of a certain mindset to vote Republican. Illegal immigration has been going on in large numbers since long before you or I were born, now it's suddenly a national crisis worthy of a Presidential address and a Guard deployment. Give me a break, it's a cheap play for votes.
The way illegal immigration on the border works is (assuming the immigrants get across) they live with family or friends already here, get some kind of crap job, stick around as long as they can, and hope to become legal someday. Sometimes the immigrants become legal, sometimes they are caught and deported, and sometimes they go back on their own. Bottom line, they don't cause trouble and have provided a low cost workforce for border states for decades (not that I condone the wages they're paid, just pointing out what they've contributed) and it's time that people who are fortunate enough to be US citizens (yourself included, spare me the whiny Cuban American immigrant bs, you were born a citizen) acknowledge what these immigrants have gone through and put up with just to have a chance at a better life. That doesn't mean treating the border like a war zone or criminalizing illegals already here or people who employ or rent housing to them. It means giving them guest worker status and letting them earn citizenship.
On a personal note, it isn't uncommon for members of minority groups to resent each other. There are plenty of blacks who don't like blacks and lots of Hispanics who don''t like other Hispanic groups. My guess is that you resent illegal immigrants because, though they come from totally different backgrounds as you, they look like you more or less, especially to Anglos. It's common in El Paso for middle and upper class Mexican Americans to dislike and even discriminate against poor Mexican Americans, and especially illegal immigrants. The well of Mexican Americans hate that, when it comes down to it, they look about the same as the poor Mexicans, just with better clothes. Maybe you actually think illegal immigration on the border with Mexico is a crisis ( if so you're only misinformed)worthy of troop deployment, but given your posting I think it's more likely that you resent the illegal immigrants personally.
As to your belief that the BP agents would take 1-3 years to deploy, it would take a year, and they would be trained specifically for this job, unlike Guard troops. Here's what current FEMA Chief Michael Chertoff said about using troops
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OK, I was gonna marry Dayve. But now I have to marry Brian!
I love you man!
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Quote:
"The ignorance displayed in Anthony's response to me is so staggering that I'm a little shocked and not completely sure where to begin. First, I suggest that you should register as a Republican. Get it over with, you aren't an independent and the Democratic Party is too rational for you."
I suppose you have the right to call me ignorant. It's one of those constitutional rights I agree with, along with the separation of church and state. That's why I'm not Republican. But I believe in the right to own firearms, and that's why I'm not a Democrat. Sorry, but I don't fit into a neat little box. I advocate ideas that make sense to me, not the ideas of a single party. It is rather amusing to note that you think Republicans are irrational. I suppose they feel the same way about you.
Quote:
I do not advocate a sub class of dirt poor illegal immigrants. What I advocate is guest worker status for the illegal immigrants already here, and a means for Mexicans who want to come to Te US and work to do so legally. I have no idea why you would mention Wisconsin, one look at a map should tell you that Wisconsin does not have a Mexican immigration problem. Oh wait, maybe you thought you were being clever. You failed in that regard.
I picked Wisconsin precisely because they do not have an illegal immigrant problem. But they do have toilets and busboys and landscaping. Their businesses haven't ground to a halt just because they were forced to hire legal workers for a legal wage.
You were also too busy wallowing in your Democratic logic to read my previous posts and realize I advocate amnesty and citizenship programs for the illegals already here. There is also already a program in place for foreigners to work jobs in the United States. It's part of the legal immigration program.
Quote:
I grew up in El Paso and have lived in Texas my entire life so I'm well aware that illegal immigration is not a threat to our national security or to our economy. Although I don't approve of paying illegal immigrants sub minimum wage rates, it is widely done as has actually benefited the economies of the border states.
I'm sure many companies have benefitted from the ability to hire people for substandard wages, but I'm not convinced that equates to a better economy.
Quote:
So, these people aren't a military threat to us, they aren't damaging our economy, where is this great threat that requires a deployment of 10,000 soldiers?
Well, let me lay out for you how this hinders the economy.
1) People being paid substandard wages 'under the table' are not appropriately paying taxes.
2) People being paid substandard wages 'under the table' are not eligible for benefits, but still get sick and need things like health care. Health care which is provided regardless of ability to pay. Health care paid for by taxes.
3) People being paid substandard wages 'under the table' are doing a job no one else wants to do... For substandard wages. If they are performing a service that needs to be done, then they are artificially lowering the payscale for that job by being available for substandard wages. Why should I pay Jake 5 bucks an hour to do something that Joe will do for 4? Plus I don't need to provide benefits for Joe? Score!
4) People being paid substandard wages 'under the table' are doing so in a desperate attempt to support themselves and their children... Who attend schools. Schools which receive federal funding. From taxes. Taxes not collected from people being paid substandard wages 'under the table.'
There are undoubtably some illegals who obtain illegal identification so that they can obtain better jobs. These illegals may pay taxes and earn benefits. There is no way to quantify this element, or to claim that they are a majority.
Quote:
There is only one reason to overreact this way, and that is for political gain.
I'm glad you think that there's only one reason to do anything. Even so, let me point out that there would be no po
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AthonyT
"But I believe in the right to own firearms, and that's why I'm not a Democrat"
You mean the right that was set out for the people to bear arms without the Kings approval so that they could protect themselves from invading forces?
Go to school - Study English history. Learn about the fact that you couldn't have an army without the Kings permission and how you couldn't arm the army without the Kings permission (lest you use it against him) and then come back and tell me that you SERIOUSLY believe the intent of this "Right" was for the guy down the street to have a boat load of guns that can only be used to kill other people. This is a right to arm a militia. Not the right for Joe Schmoe down the street to own an AK47 or 357.
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Um you forgot the other people benefitting from the illegal aliens doing crap jobs for crap pay - the Rich, and often Republicans, making a profit off the cheap labor.
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Quote:
"You mean the right that was set out for the people to bear arms without the Kings approval so that they could protect themselves from invading forces?
Go to school - Study English history. Learn about the fact that you couldn't have an army without the Kings permission and how you couldn't arm the army without the Kings permission (lest you use it against him) and then come back and tell me that you SERIOUSLY believe the intent of this "Right" was for the guy down the street to have a boat load of guns that can only be used to kill other people. This is a right to arm a militia. Not the right for Joe Schmoe down the street to own an AK47 or 357."
You seem to have a lot of animosity towards me, Mrs. Fillion. Check out my recent post in this forum where I said that the 2nd ammendment grants us a right to bear arms only by an accident of wording, and that I dread the day when a supreme court decision overturns that right.
In the same post, I reveal that while the right to bear arms was spelled out for militia purposes, the framers of the constitution probably never envisioned a day when a person couldn't carry weapons for hunting or defense.
Quote:
Um you forgot the other people benefitting from the illegal aliens doing crap jobs for crap pay - the Rich, and often Republicans, making a profit off the cheap labor.
Okay, I get it. You don't hate me. You hate Republicans. And since you think I'm a Republican, you hate me by proxy.
These rich folks you speak of are some of the folks who don't want to pay what a service is worth. Don't call them rich. Call them greedy.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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