Is a hawk evil when it kills a rabbit?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 23:32
VIEWED: 6972
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KHYRON

Friday, May 12, 2006 3:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pdcharles:
She is instinctively providing for the family.

Not sure if what I'm about to say is true, but I read somewhere that if a cat starts delivering its hunting victims, it considers that to be its contribution to the household. So if one doesn't want a cat to keep doing it, one obviously shouldn't reward it (because then it'll just keep doing it), but one shouldn't be angry with it either. If one is angry with it, the cat will think that the contribution wasn't good enough and this will result in it going out hunting more often and always delivering its prey. If one doesn't react to the cat bringing in the prey in any strong way, the cat will be content with its contribution and not feel the need to go hunting again any time soon.

EDIT: Sorry, way off topic, but I have a soft spot for cats.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

RIVER6213

Friday, May 12, 2006 4:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I've been wondering, what's wrong with taking what you want, as long as you don't end up in jail?
Isn't the Bush Administration doing what it can do? If you find a twenty dollar bill on the street, don't you take it? We breed and kill innocent animals for tasty meals, don't we. This is a dog-eat-dog world, and if it can be taken, you do, right? So what if people die in wars, they're gonna die someday anyway, right? Who are we to play God and say the Bush Administration shouldn't be doing...ANYTHING??
If any of us were presidents, how do you know we wouldn't be doing exactly what Cheney suggested we do, too?
Christ would be the first one to say forgive Bush!

Bush's Advocate Chrisisall

You are kidding...right?

River

SASSALICIOUS

Friday, May 12, 2006 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Of course animals don't really indulge in this kind of behaviour, people do.

I think I saw a documentary film once that had a pair of killer whales playing with a seal by throwing it back and forth between each other until the seal was dead.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

I saw the same video on Discovery Channel!

CITIZEN

Friday, May 12, 2006 7:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Tossing a seal back and forth like a volleyball for several minutes isn't hunting. I don't think it's practice either. Not unless there's a species of flying seal I don't know about, forcing Orca to learn how to catch airborne seals. It's not hunting or practice by any stretch of the imagination. Not even if you eat the seal afterwards.

It IS fun, though. Or at least, it is if you like volleyball.

A lone Orca will toss Seals into the air in order to break its neck to kill it. Two Orcas will bounce the Seal between them in order to break its neck.

They do it to kill the Seal and yes they also do it for practice. An Orca hunts by beaching it self and catching a Seal in one motion. This takes a lot of coordination and judgement, coordination and judgement improved by bouncing those Seals around.

Quote:
I think that's what makes humans the 'superior' life form. We can reason past all sorts of things, and wrap our brains around concepts. We are so complex that we can reason ourselves into unreasonableness. We can twist ourselves. We're the invention that re-invents itself. Not always for the better.

Humans aren't the only animals that show these traits. Dolphins for instance are highly intelligent, in fact I've heard it said that if they didn't live in a more 'stable' environment like the Sea and if they had opposable thumbs there would be Dolphin cities.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

AURAPTOR

Friday, May 12, 2006 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I've been wondering, what's wrong with taking what you want, as long as you don't end up in jail?
Isn't the Bush Administration doing what it can do? If you find a twenty dollar bill on the street, don't you take it? We breed and kill innocent animals for tasty meals, don't we. This is a dog-eat-dog world, and if it can be taken, you do, right? So what if people die in wars, they're gonna die someday anyway, right? Who are we to play God and say the Bush Administration shouldn't be doing...ANYTHING??
If any of us were presidents, how do you know we wouldn't be doing exactly what Cheney suggested we do, too?
Christ would be the first one to say forgive Bush!

Bush's Advocate Chrisisall

I thought this was about hawks and bunnies.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 12, 2006 2:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
You are kidding...right?

Just trying to honestly explore why some dismiss Bush's actions as non-criminal.
Trying to get into that head was surely difficult, but I did manage to think that way, if only for a few posts. It necessitated a focus on the overall picture, like a kid re-arranging an ant farm, and unintentionally squashing 10% of his ants in the process. Oh well, that's the price of progress.

I found it a cold place to try to be in.

But that's just me Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 12, 2006 2:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Yep, have to agree with AnthonyT on this one. I thought this was nice:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
We are so complex that we can reason ourselves into unreasonableness. We can twist ourselves. We're the invention that re-invents itself. Not always for the better.

Although I think if we re-invent ourselves in the sense of changing human "characteristics", it's only as a society, the way one convention that was common becomes unacceptable in society a few generations afterwards. We as a species don't change, but the way we interact does.

This here was the point of this thread, I think.

Sponge-like Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 12, 2006 2:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

I,m thinking this message is from the anti-chris

After I posted, I did notice this goatee on my face, and an agonizer on my belt...

Chrisisall

ANTHONYT

Friday, May 12, 2006 4:01 PM

"A lone Orca will toss Seals into the air in order to break its neck to kill it. Two Orcas will bounce the Seal between them in order to break its neck.

They do it to kill the Seal and yes they also do it for practice. An Orca hunts by beaching it self and catching a Seal in one motion. This takes a lot of coordination and judgement, coordination and judgement improved by bouncing those Seals around."

Well hell, Citizen. You animal apologist. I guess animals just can't have fun. Everything they do is exclusively for a survival or training purpose.

"I think that's what makes humans the 'superior' life form. We can reason past all sorts of things, and wrap our brains around concepts. We are so complex that we can reason ourselves into unreasonableness. We can twist ourselves. We're the invention that re-invents itself. Not always for the better."

"Humans aren't the only animals that show these traits. Dolphins for instance are highly intelligent, in fact I've heard it said that if they didn't live in a more 'stable' environment like the Sea and if they had opposable thumbs there would be Dolphin cities."

Wait a minute, Citizen. You telling me that on the one hand, an animal can't think hard enough to have fun, but on the other hand, they can reason themselves into unreasonableness?

Wicked logic.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

CITIZEN

Friday, May 12, 2006 4:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Well hell, Citizen. You animal apologist. I guess animals just can't have fun. Everything they do is exclusively for a survival or training purpose.

Well if that's your interpretation of what I said, as wrong and as simplistic as it may be, that's your interpretation.

Quote:
Wait a minute, Citizen. You telling me that on the one hand, an animal can't think hard enough to have fun, but on the other hand, they can reason themselves into unreasonableness?

Wicked logic.

You spin me right round Anthony right round...

I didn't say any of that. You made sweeping statements that were wrong.

You said Orcas act the way they do merely because they're playing volleyball with a Seal merely to have fun, like there’s no reason behind the act, from a survival point of view. That is wrong.

You said Humans are the only species to exhibit higher reasoning and culture, which is also wrong. I never said Orcas don't enjoy hunting, I said they do it too survive.

People enjoy hunting and enjoy going on safari, but these are not in the vast majority of cases required for our survival. We do them solely for enjoyment, the killer whale does not. When you find an example of an animal killing merely to kill, let me know, because seriously, you won't.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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