Defense of Home
POSTED BY: StillFlyin
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 07:32
VIEWED: 10548
PAGE 8 of 9
"If you get yourself and your family out, if possible, this really isn't an issue."
I can see it now...
"Psst. Honey. Honey. Honey! I think I heard something. Get your shoes on. Call the cops, and come on..."
Tip toe... through the tulips...
"Psst. Billy. *Nudge, Nudge* Billy, wake up. Get your shoes on. No, it's not time for school. There's someone in the house. No, it's okay. Just get your shoes on. Come on. Be vewwy vewwy quiet..."
Tip toe... through the tulips...
"Psst. Lizzie. No, it's not morning. There's a burglar in the house. No, it's okay. Don't freak out. Get your shoes on. No, no, it's okay. He's not going to get us. No, Lizzie, there's no reason to preemptively go down there and confront him. Yeah, I know we have to go down there anyway to escape. It's okay. A guy on the internet said this was a good idea. Come on. Be vewwy vewwy quiet..."
Tip toe... through the tulips...
"Hey there, Mr. Burglar. You weren't supposed to be in my escape route. Well, guess what? The police are on their way. You can run, now. What's that? Not running in fear? You obviously don't read the posts on Fireflyfans.net. The police really ARE on their way, you know. Hey, get away from Lizzie! No hostages! Damn it! YOU'RE BEING VERY ILLOGICAL, YOU DUMBASS!"
The End... of Lizzie.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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So your way is inherently better then, I can see it now:
AnthonyT hears a noise, pulls his two M16's from under the bed, slips on his ammo and grenade belts and flies down stairs.
Screaming "Asta la vista, baby" he takes out the intruders with round after round from his M16's in true action hero fashion. Sure he takes three rounds to the chest but he pulls off his shirt sleeves and binds the wounds, which as we all know from watching the last action hero prevents any lasting damage.
In the end all the intruders lie dead, leaving our hero to make a smart remark: "Bullets, a steal from Wal-Mart!"
AnthonyT is lauded as a hero for his valiant action and later wins the presidency.
Or we could step into reality for a moment:
AnthonyT who for some reason believes he is invincible with his 9mm Berretta confronts the intruders who promptly "bust a cap in his ass".
Obviously they didn't read the Fireflyfans.net thread where AnthonyT proved he was in fact the last action hero.
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Ah, Citizen.
I never felt I was the Last Action Hero. Or any Action Hero.
I only believe that having a weapon and the will to use it gives me a chance in ten of getting out of a firefight alive. You see, I believe a criminal is inherently more prepared to kill than most lawful citizens.
On the other hand, I'll take my one chance in ten, thank you very much, rather than leave the entire matter in someone else's hands... someone else who is burglarizing my house.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
On the other hand, I'll take my one chance in ten, thank you very much, rather than leave the entire matter in someone else's hands... someone else who is burglarizing my house.
Ah AnthonyT
I never said you should kneel at their feet and beg them for mercy.
I said that one's first resort is not going in with both guns blazing, which is what you want to do...
...like some sort of action hero.
Also you have a better than one in ten chance of surviving a firefight if you don't actually have one. But if you want to be Rambo more power to you.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I do not think that size and strength of an attacker should play into the force of your defense.
While I am not a martial artist, I have heard enough of them give the same tired old speech.
Namely, that your size and strength are unimportant. A 90 pound 5 foot weakling can take apart a 7 foot 300 pound individual with the right training.
I bolded the part of your post that to me seems the most significant; it's the part where you talk about "the right training."
Without the "right training," are size and strength unimportant? I talked about the people who killed a man by accident by being larger and pinning him down. Can you dispute that their size and strength had something to do with it? And you talk about a 90-pound weakling breaking your nose - you do realize that's it's not hard to break a nose don't you? A 4-year old could do it with a misplaced swing of an elbow. Does that justify a lethal response? Someone gets a lucky shot and you assume they are a competent fighter?
You're making a case for "better safe than sorry," but it's coming out as "judge, jury, executioner," as Citizen has pointed out.
I'll give you another example. A woman in the local news recently fired her gun through the door at someone trying to break into her house, killing him instantly. In this case, he was a burglar. But what if he had not been? I know at least two people who were so drunk that they tried getting in to houses that weren't theirs, and I myself have been drunk enough to try to get into a truck that looked like mine before. Is shoot to kill in that situation remotely reasonable? What are you defending, and from who?
Also, let's take the position that most home invaders probably don't want to run into the homeowner (I think that's reasonable). A couple kids break in, you have a gun; they try to run past you to get out, you see that as an attack, and you kill them. Are you in the right for killing an unarmed teen who was committing petty burglary?
Better safe than sorry is a response likely to cause more trouble than it is worth.
------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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Quote:Wing Chun would have me combine both moves in one motion, as if favours directness and not wasting time, however, a throat strike in a moment of violence would probably bring about the same result: the inability for the guy to breathe.
Originally posted by citizen:
I see nothing particularly wrong with either scenario apart from that, except pinching the guys throat, you should palm strike to the face to tip the head back and expose the neck, then shaolin punched to the throat.
Much more satisfying.
Ahh, I'm playing Devil's advocate here, avoiding violence is most always the way to go.
Violence entails paperwork and court dates...Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Wing Chun would have me combine both moves in one motion, as if favours directness and not wasting time, however, a throat strike in a moment of violence would probably bring about the same result: the inability for the guy to breathe.
Ahh, I'm playing Devil's advocate here, avoiding violence is most always the way to go.
Assuming the punch is coming from their right arm, block with the left, lead in with your right for the face strike as you withdraw your left arm and lead in with the Shaolin punch with your left as you withdraw your right
One smooth sequence of movements that flow into each other.
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"I said that one's first resort is not going in with both guns blazing, which is what you want to do..."
I'm not sure where I said I had two guns, or that I would leap in like Yosemite Sam and blaze away, filling the air with lead. If you can find any of my statements that demonstrate a lack of caution or care, I'd appreciate it. What I HAVE said is that I'd rather have a gun than not have one, and that if I feel threatened, I'd like to be able to use lethal force in my defense without being brought up on charges. I am a very safe and sane gun user, thank you very much, and so please leave your stereotypes at home. If I was RAMBO, perhaps I'd feel better about taking chances with my life. I am Anthony Toledo, and not being an invulnerable Action Hero, I will take any actions necessary to defend my life, without a long meditative session on the relative strengths between my attacker and myself.
"A woman in the local news recently fired her gun through the door at someone trying to break into her house, killing him instantly."
The first rule of gun use is to be sure of your target. You NEVER fire blindly. But I fail to see what this has to do with my argument. I never advocated firing at a noise, a door, or a shadow. I advocated having a gun and using it against an ATTACKER. A door is not an attacker. It would have been correct to wait for the door to be bashed in and identify the target. Preferably while hiding behind the couch or peeking around a wall.
"Also you have a better than one in ten chance of surviving a firefight if you don't actually have one. But if you want to be Rambo more power to you."
I guess I could hope a gunman won't shoot me, won't hit me, or won't wound me seriously. But then, that's the case if I'm armed, too. The difference is, there's a chance I will stop him with MY gun, and that's one more option for survival. Because, you know, if he's shooting at me, and I have no weapon, I've got Nada.
"Without the "right training," are size and strength unimportant? I talked about the people who killed a man by accident by being larger and pinning him down. Can you dispute that their size and strength had something to do with it? And you talk about a 90-pound weakling breaking your nose - you do realize that's it's not hard to break a nose don't you? A 4-year old could do it with a misplaced swing of an elbow. Does that justify a lethal response? Someone gets a lucky shot and you assume they are a competent fighter?"
So I've got a violent attacker, a broken bone, and blood gushing from my face. Should I assume my attacker is NOT capable? NOT dangerous? How many more licks should I give the 90 pound weakling before I respond with any force necessary to stop him? Shall I enter a protracted boxing competition, carefully choosing blows unlikely to seriously wound my attacker? Or should I respond violently in kind, with all the strength and speed I can muster, to end the fight quickly before it turns even further against me?
I vote for option 2. Not because I'm Rambo. And not because I'm Rocky. Rather, because I'm NOT. I'm just a guy with a broken, bleeding face who is squinting through tears and pain as a '90 pound weakling' pounds his fists into my face. I'm hurting and scared and breathing hard because I don't get to the gym enough. My knees feel like jelly and my arms feel like lead. It's time for fight or flight... And I'm pretty sure your 90 pound weakling can outrun me.
I'm not speaking hypothetical here, folks. I am a 6'3" man who weighs 240 pounds who HAS BEEN ATTACKED by five foot tall 'weaklings' that look like they could get blown over by a stiff wind. In fact, I'd argue that the little guys who have attacked me were tougher than the big guys. Maybe they have something to prove? I've been bleeding, bruised, and broken. And I've gotten out of it ONLY by being hard, fast, and dirty.
So I suck as a boxer or martial artist. If you feel competant, by all means treat your attackers
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My style would have me intercept the punch, using a left palm to both block the punch and land the palm strike, while simultaniously punching the throat. With a standard stance, the palm would raise the head just in time for the throat punch to hit, being launched at the same time from about six inches farther back.
If I was standing southpaw, which I frequently do, this would have to change to a left block(parry) and a simultanious right palm to the face, followed by a seperate left throat punch, and simultanious right cover in case of a wild left swing...
Edit: hmmm, the second southpaw tac is pretty much what you said, I guess...
F**k it, I'll just kick 'em in the knee
.
Martial tech-talk Chrisisall
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Ahh I see. Yeah I know those sequences. Basis for part of the Sum Chein, don't know if you have that in your style?
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