Bush article in 'Rolling Stone'
POSTED BY: aussay
UPDATED: Saturday, April 22, 2006 19:24
VIEWED: 8079
PAGE 5 of 6
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Originally posted by Dayve:
i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I really wish things would work out to everyone's satisfaction, but there are such strong feelings on both sides of this issue.
I suppose.
But we probably agree more on this than we disagree. As I said, I don't agree with everything the President has done (or any human being for that matter), and I don't think we needed to preemptively go into Iraq when we did. However, I do not believe (as the media would like us to believe) that we were lied to. Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
I'm not really one to just sit here and bash the president of the united states for no good reason. I was raised to respect this country and all that it stands for, which includes whomever is the commander in chief at the time. But, I can not sit by and do nothing while the fabric of this great country unravels at the seams.
Me neither. I was taught to respect the office, even if loathed the occupant. While I could disagree with policy (or personal conduct), I often found myself having to bite my tongue when it came to respect for the office -- which was made much more difficult with certain occupants than others.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
I see no reasonable solutions to this war in Iraq being presented by the president...just more of the same thing that hasn't worked before. All indications are that the greater the presence of U.S. forces (who i fully support), the worse the situation becomes. Something has to change, and I fear that this administration is a little too trigger happy when they have their backs to the wall. I fear that too much aggression on our side will eventually come back to bite us in the ass, if not start an all out war in the Middle East - WWIII....please - how could any sane person want that.
Personally, I believe the problem of the Middle East will never be solved. I believe it's a problem well beyond the abilities of mankind. That being said, we can only try our best in individual situations as they arise, and hope that the more "moderate" nations which have a reasonable relationship with us (and the west) will better help moderate situations in more unstable regions as best as humanly possible.
My hunch is that eventually the next world-wide conflagration will arise out of the Middle East -- whether in this generation or the next. I hope I'm wrong, but that seems to be my feeling, given the whole history of the region, and particularly the events of the last 30 (or so) years.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
But, as far as the 'liberal media' complaint goes...how can you say that when a large portion of the airwaves are in the pockets of right leaning conservatives?...i mean Fox, for crying out loud...and now I understand that the prez is set to announce Tony Snow as press secretary... a Fox talking head.... it seems to me that if we are being spoonfed anything it's the Bush/Cheney hysteria.....
Most major newspapers and all but one of the TV networks are decidely left of center. And while many liberals tout Fox News as conservative, as a conservative, I'd say Fox is more middle than conservative. On a scale of 1 to 10, me being a 10, I'd rate most TV news to be somewhere between 1 and 4, with Fox a 5 or 6. So, if one's personal political leanings are below a 5, then a 5 or 6 seems "right" to them. If one's personal political leanings are above a 6, then a 5 or 6 seems "left" to them. Politics are relative.
Yes, a lot of the talk shows have a conservative bent. But, given the nature of the print and television media (as well as radio "news")-- not to mention the "entertainment" media which is (to a large extent) even hostile to conservative ideals -- it's still an uphill battle for anyone leaning "right".
Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I have a sincere desire to find some common ground on which we can all agNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
computer's a tad buggy today...what else is new...
I don't know why I get into these political/religious arguments anymore... like a co-worker told me around the last election...'you're not gonna change my mind, and i'm not gonna change yours...' which is fair enough.
The thing that always comes back to me, no matter how upset i can get with politicians, is that we live in a free country and we are all free to have our own opinions... and that's something.
But the thing i don't understand, or don't appreciate anyway...is the seemingly lack of compassion by some of the most conservative right-wingers. Sure, it's fine to do well, make lots of money, have a secure future and provide for your family, but often it seems that this grand idea of getting all you can, while you can is usually to the determent of the less fortunate citizens of this country. While some will say that it's not the governments job to provide for people who won't help themselves, i will always disagree. What is a government but an institution set up to ensure the well being of all of its citizens. I'm not a socialist, but i do lean heavily to the more progressive way of thinking. That is, a government should be of the people and for the people. From what I've seen from many of the leaders of the Republican party, it seems that only the richest and most powerful are considered worthy of citizenship.
I suppose many democrats would fall into that same catagory, but through the years, it seems that that party was a little more concerned with the well being of everyone, and not just those who agreed with them.
I don't know, maybe i would feel differently if i had Dick Cheney's millions...but I'm just a middle class guy who pays his taxes and waves the flag on the 4th of July and I just can't help but have the feeling that the guys up in the White House could care less for me or almost half of the country who disagree with their policies.....
just my opinion
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Zero, you have some faulty neurons. You need to get that checked out.
Quote:
we really won her over.....
Quote:80% of Iraqis want the US out. I guess the US did a smashing job winning people over!
Maybe not her. But probably her daughter who was tortured in Saddam's jail, her other son who was executed
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
The U.S. had absolutely no reason to get involved in WWI. The excuse our government used (the sinking of Lusitania) really was a non-issue to the U.S. Firstly, the Lusitania was a British (not American) ship, and it was sunk nearly two full years prior to the U.S.'s declaration of war.
Actually the U.S. entered WWI because of the Zimmermann note. The Germans sent an offer to Mexico that they would help re-take California and other territory the U.S. had conquered, in exchange for Mexico's declaration of war against the U.S. The British intercepted the message and told America.
The Lusitania was a British ship, but it was transporting over 100 U.S. citizens. The sinking outraged many Americans (even though the British were using it to illegally transport ammunition, making it a legitimate target). Even so, it was only one of many incidents that drove the U.S. to war with Germany.
You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.
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Cartoon - again your decision to use opinions as facts is hysterical! Most TV and newspaper outlets are liberal and Fox is more "central"? Hillarious! The battle between left and right about what outlets are liberal and which are conservative has never been decided. Some argue that the Washington Post has gotten very conservative - same with shows like Hardball, et al. It is no secret that for a long time conservatives ruled the radio (that most people would agree on). Look, you can believe anything you want, just don't confuse opinion with fact.
Hollywood? Decidedly left? Yeah, maybe, but is that because they had conservatives or because they have that more social/compassiate view of society? I think sometimes we misinterpret things because of our own biases. It is the job of artists/writers/etc to discuss social issues - writers have been doing it for centuries.
Dayve: As for people have the attitude "you won't change my mind, I won't change yours"... I've heard that too - it is, in my opinion, the thing that is most wrong with our country. We should be open to change our minds when we here new information or a new viewpoint on an issue. Good for you for staying in the conversation.
Persoally, I don't think voters should be allowed to declare a party. Then, maybe, people would vote for who was more qualified rather than what party the candidate belonged to.
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Quote:That is, until we pre-emptivly invade Iraq, at which point you'll say you supported it all along, Bush is the Man, America right never wrong, it's our holy mission to weed out terrorists, blagh, blagh, woof, woof.
Originally posted by cartoon:
Personally, while I consider myself an avid supporter of the President (on most issues), I don't believe we needed to preemptively invade Iraq.
Try thinking outside of the cereal box, Bugs.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
That is, until we pre-emptivly invade Iraq, at which point you'll say you supported it all along, Bush is the Man, America right never wrong, it's our holy mission to weed out terrorists, blagh, blagh, woof, woof.
Try thinking outside of the cereal box, Bugs.
Cartoon, thinking! Good luck, if he's not told what to think about a situation by the Bible he NEEDS GWB's guidance, no inderpendent thought see.
That's why he won't respond to me, know's I'll rip him apart, because I have a brain, and he doesn't.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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Yeah,
Again, I have to call you out on that liberal media thing. Most news is NOT decidedly left of center or it would sound like Air America. Listen to that radio station and then tell me CNN sounds like that. FOX is NOT middle of the road or it would not sound exactly like Limbaugh...sadly they get the same talking points memo, they use exactly the same analogies, exactly the same excuses, exactly the same phrases...etc.
If you're going to call commentators like O'reiley, and 'journalists' like Hume moderate, please indicate something they have ever said that makes them so...
Hell, Hume tried to tell us that it was safer for the soldiers in Iraq than it was to live in California, based on number of deaths within a certain period of time, WITHOUT actually considering the ratio! Either he's an idiot or he's intentionally misrepresenting facts in favor of the war. And he is supposed to be unbiased.
O'reiley? I've only heard him complain about the President when either backed into a corner, or when immigration is the topic. He pretends he's his own man, but his words don't back up his claim.
We don't even need to bring up Cavuto or Hannity now do we?
And no, you don't get to use your own scale for determining what is moderate and what is liberal. Just because you are far more right-wing than anything out there does not change the fact that FOX news is a propaganda engine for the current administration, which is not moderate, which is not cooperative, which is not uniting in its policies or practices, which is not open to left ideas, bipartisanship, or even letting bygones be bygones.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong..
I look forward to your post citing evidence for any of your claims.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Just because you are far more right-wing than anything out there does not change the fact that FOX news is a propaganda engine for the current administration, which is not moderate, which is not cooperative, which is not uniting in its policies or practices, which is not open to left ideas, bipartisanship, or even letting bygones be bygones.
Sooo since China is far far Left I think it's fair to say all news is Right because it's more right than China, which is left
.Quote:
I look forward to your post citing evidence for any of your claims.
Please don't hold your breath, I'd really hate too see you die from asphyxiation.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.
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