Bush article in 'Rolling Stone'
POSTED BY: aussay
UPDATED: Saturday, April 22, 2006 19:24
VIEWED: 8079
PAGE 4 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
...That point aside, regarding the being "led into war under false pretenses" claim, from my study of American history, it seems that in nearly every case, the USA to war under false pretenses.
Oh, that makes it alright then. No need for an independant investigation. We'll all just do as we're told. Grat idea.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
yes, i'm sure...like the woman who lost her entire family in the inital bombing raid on Bagdad.... we really won her over.....
Maybe not her. But probably her daughter who was tortured in Saddam's jail, her other son who was executed for failing to win an Olympic medal, or every man, woman, and child in a 20 square mile radius who either directly suffered or had an immediate family member that suffered physical abuse at the hands of the tyrannical Hussein regime.
Most Iraqis think things are better now and most believe that the war was Saddam's fault although a fair number wish we'd done this in 1991).
H
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Everyone knows Iraq had WMD's, and there are no records of their destruction. Logically, as there is no record of their destruction, they still must exist.
Hmmm... I think you are playing a little loose with the facts. Your opinion is a bit unsupported. I dont' think the Pres lied either - I just think he is too dumb to be patient and look at all the facts. You logic is rather pathetic.
Quote:
That point aside, regarding the being "led into war under false pretenses" claim, from my study of American history, it seems that in nearly every case, the USA to war under false pretenses.
So what? Because it might have been done before that makes it ok? Sorry, we used to keep slaves, does that mean slavery is ok? At some point in time we need to become more educated, enlightened, stop making the same mistakes...
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it should be clear that our reasons for entering a war are rarely as clear cut as people like to think they are.
So true, which is why we, as a nation, need to open our eyes, use our brains, and speak up when we think those reasons are not justified.
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while I consider myself an avid supporter of the President (on most issues), I don't believe we needed to preemptively invade Iraq. I do believe the world is better off with Saddam gone -- but I'm not sure it had to be done when and how it was done.
Most issues? Really? You don't believe in science either? Or the constitution? Or the first amendment? Or Christian morals? Or changing your mind when you learn facts? Interesting...
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They feel they're doing a good job, and that the vast majority of the Iraqi people support them and are grateful for their service in their behalf. Of course, you'll never hear that in the media.
True - a lot of soldiers think they are doing a good thing - and they are - now. So, we need to concentrate on handling things better from here on out. Many soldiers I know who were in Iraq don't have the same view that things are all sunshine and puppy dogs over there. Why do you think so many Iraq verterans are running as Dems... Sources are bias (as they should be) and sometimes have attachment to issues which makes it difficult to see them clearly.
Oh, and HERO -
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Regan -- to defeat the Soviet Union, revitalize the American economy, inspire the innovation that led to the Information Age, and give a vision of hope to a generation of Americans and an entire world yearning for freedom and liberty in their own country. You may not like Reagan, but history loved him from the start.
Regan also, broke US policy and committed treason to our ally by giving weapons to the enemy (can anyone say Iran Contra), did NOT defeat the Soviet Union (he might have helped, but so did the natural problems involved in communistic economics and the Pope), was lucky to have been president when the information age started up, taught americans to be arrogant and boastful, drove us into debt, nearly massacred the middle class, left too many to count unemployed, destroyed our public school systems, gutted any attempts at environmental reforms... should I continue? And history kind to Regan? In some ways yes, in others no. Depends on who you read. I'm still not sure that Regan wasn't just a figure head.
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you mean like the way this country is suffering at the tyrannical hands of the bush administration??.... these guys have honed torture to it's most vulgar form.... what gives this country the right to dictate to other countries? world police? more like world class assholes....
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmb9039:
So what? Because it might have been done before that makes it ok? Sorry, we used to keep slaves, does that mean slavery is ok? At some point in time we need to become more educated, enlightened, stop making the same mistakes...
Uh, there's this thing called "reading comprehension", which if applied to my statement would see that my very first paragraph stated that I don't think we entered the war under false pretenses.
Quote:
Originally posted by jmb9039:
So true, which is why we, as a nation, need to open our eyes, use our brains, and speak up when we think those reasons are not justified.
Or when we believe everything an anti-Bush press spoon-feeds us, as many apparently do.
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Or when we believe everything an anti-Bush press spoon-feeds us, as many apparently do.
Which is no better than beleiving everything pro-Bush supporters spood-feed us, as many apparently do.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Are they anit Bush or are they just smart? I like how when people think or question they are just seen as Anti Bush. Well constructed defense since is requires no actual thinking on your part.
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Okay then,
could one of you Bush apologists explain away these things for me?
Why did the White House continue to say that the aluminum tubes were certain evidence of weapons of mass destruction, when they'd already been corrected on that count?
How can you really continue to say that it was justified to leak classified information to discredit the person who was right all along about the yellow cake? Why Did George Bush stand there and let the investigation with our tax money go on for a year, if he in-fact knew who declassified Valerie Plame the whole time? Why did he tell reporters that he would get to the bottom of the leak and FIRE anybody who was involved in it? Why, if he knew the answers to these questions during an expensive inquiry, is this not in your mind, obstruction of justice, at least in principle if not in law?
Why did Bush and General Casey lie around the time of the debates about whether Osama Bin Laden was in Tora Bora when he let him slip through our fingers? He was there, he was penned in, and Bush outsourced his capture. Why did Bush basically say when asked about Bin Laden later, that he didn't really think much about him..that he'd been marginalized?
Why do you not care that American Citizens are being wiretapped? On one hand Gonzales and Bush will tell the American people that they are only Wiretapping cross-country phone calls, but when asked that directly under oath, Gonzalez refused to answer. Jesus Christ, that is an answer!
If our bloody news is so damned liberal, how come none of the usual suspects you call liberal rags touched the Downing Street Memo for a month and a half after it was being circulated with fury on the internet? And when they did finally touch it, they did so begrudgingly, with no follow-up. Why did that bastion of liberal thought, the New York Times, wait until a year after the election to break the story about the Bush wiretapping,just because the administration asked them to,when clearly it would have changed a close election if they had released it at the time?
Tell me again why big moneyed companies want democrats in office? So that they can be more regulated? Yeah, that makes a whole hell of a lot of sense, doesn't it. But keep eating the same shit getting shoved down your throats BY that 'liberal' media. They after all, are the ones who call themselves that, so it must be so.
Where the hell is the outrage for any of this? HOw much double-think does it take to make this all sound right in your heads? How many facts do you continually have to ignore in favor of talking points straight from Limbaugh? Or, if you say you are basing these things on facts, then where the hell are they? Say something factual. Don't tell me the media is liberal and that it is making the war look like it is going bad... All it would need to do would be to cover the damned thing, and it would look bad. It's ongoing aint it?
Turn on CNN right now. You can be damned sure it ain't covering it. There are no body counts on these channels. Oh, that's right. They aren't covering it because it's going so well over there. That's it. Bush's Press converence basically confirmed that this administration has no exit strategy. When asked about a time table, he told us that future presidents would have to decide that. We have gone from a few weeks to six month's tops, to "who knows". We're on our way to losing as many men and women in iraq as we lost on 911, in our effort to "fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here", and by the pentagons own estimation, we have created more terrorists than we have killed. We've got some GOP dipshit telling his would-be constituents that everything is being distorted over there and he'll give us a picture to prove how good everything is doing, and even the picture turns out to be a lie, a different country entirely.
By the way, they told us that the oil we seized would help us to pay for the war. What the hell happened to that? We have a ceo retiring from Exxon Mobile with like a 400 mill
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Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Or when we believe everything an anti-Bush press spoon-feeds us, as many apparently do
Mr. (or Ms. - not sure here) Cartoon, i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I really wish things would work out to everyone's satisfaction, but there are such strong feelings on both sides of this issue.
I'm not really one to just sit here and bash the president of the united states for no good reason. I was raised to respect this country and all that it stands for, which includes whomever the commander in chief at the time. But, I can not sit by and do nothing while the fabric of this great country unravels at the seams.
I see no reasonable solutions to this war in Iraq being presented by the president...just more of the same thing that hasn't worked before. All indications are that the greater the presence of U.S. forces (who i fully support), the worse the situation becomes. Something has to change, and I fear that this administration is a little too trigger happy when they have their backs to the wall. I fear that too much aggression on our side will eventually come back to bite us in the ass, if not start an all out war in the Middle East - WWIII....please - how could any sane person want that.
But, as far as the 'liberal media' complaint goes...how can you say that when a large portion of the airwaves are in the pockets of right leaning conservatives?...i mean Fox, for crying out loud...and now I understand that the prez is set to announce Tony Snow as press secretary... a Fox talking head.... it seems to me that if we are being spoonfed anything it's the Bush/Cheney hysteria.....
A government based on fear, one that rules by fear and hatred, can not last...sooner or later (later i fear), the population will, (must) see through this web of lies and put this country back to the path of hope and good will to all men - not just the rich and powerful.
As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I have a sincere desire to find some common ground on which we can all agree and begin to restore this nation to its former standing in the world.
peace
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