Illegal immigration

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 22, 2026 17:49
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KHYRON

Monday, April 10, 2006 4:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
1) For me, legal and illegal have little meaning in a country so ready to assign one or the other arbitrarily, or to suit the purpose at hand. There is only what a man can do, and what a man can't do, most CEO's know and operate by this.

There's still a difference, even if employers and some people on here can't tell.

Legal: One has waited in line to be allowed into the foreign country. If one is allowed in, it means one has got the necessary credentials to be of aid to that foreign country in some way.

Illegal: One skipped the queue and snuck in without waiting like all those nice people waiting to be let in legally have, and one doesn't even necessarily have the necessary credentials.

As a crude comparison, imagine there's a job opening and there's a bunch of qualified people waiting to be interviewed for that job, but they're still stuck at the security check of that particular building. Now imagine there's somebody that sneaks in past the security check, goes up to the interview, bullshits his way through it and gets the job because he was the first one there. Does that seem right to you?

It's not a great comparison, but it sort of gets the point across. And it's not just potentially legal aliens that get screwed by this, it's also people living in that country that screwed over (as has been spoken about before on this thread).

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
2) You're using my 'isall'.

Khyroniseverything

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

SASSALICIOUS

Monday, April 10, 2006 5:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sassalicious:
I don't know what state you're from, but in WI in-state tuition isn't cheap. In fact, on the basis of money alone, it would almost be cheaper for me to pay out of state tuition at a number of other schools. Lucky for me, my school is a damn good one. Furthermore, as far as I know, one needs to be a citizen/have a green card and a state drivers license to establish residency and get federal aid, so I highly doubt most undocumented workers can afford higher education. At least for awhile.

Also, referencing a previous post of yours, abortion is not genocide.

I'm a bit confused, was that in response to my post? Because I never said anything about education or abortion, at least not in this thread (and I certainly would never have claimed that abortion is genocide).

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

No, it wasn't directed at you. It was to PirateNews. Apparently I clicked on the wrong message reply link in my slightly comatose state early this morning. Sorry about that.

KHYRON

Monday, April 10, 2006 5:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sassalicious:
No, it wasn't directed at you. It was to PirateNews. Apparently I clicked on the wrong message reply link in my slightly comatose state early this morning. Sorry about that.

No problem

.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

JAYTEE

Monday, April 10, 2006 5:27 PM

It's that tragic Space Dementia making you all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart!

"Wish I had some of whatever this Piratenews guy is smoking"

Jaytee

CITIZEN

Monday, April 10, 2006 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JayTee:
It's that tragic Space Dementia making you all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart!

"Wish I had some of whatever this Piratenews guy is smoking"

Jaytee

You really really don't...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

FLETCH2

Monday, April 10, 2006 8:47 PM

I admit to being quite surprised by the list of "rights" people posted earlier. Speaking as a "legal" I had to do the following to get my visa.

1) I had to find an American willing to take financial responsability for me (in this case my wife.) She had to prove that she was in good financial shape which involved us filing with the IRS for the 8 years she lived abroad (Americans are supposed to file every year even if they dont live/earn pay in the US, she hadn't because it was pointless but the INS made her play catch up since they didn't take foreign tax documents as proof of earnings. She also needed a letter from her job saying what the terms of her employment were, how much she was paid, how long employed etc. Since the company was the same as the one she worked for in Europe she was able to prove she had a job for more than 2 years. I don't know what would have happened had she started with an entirely new employer.

2) I had to sign an afadavit saying that I would not use public assistance for 12 years. I have no idea what counts as public assistance over here, but if this is something that the human rights document says I should get, well they have legals sign that right away if they want a visa.

KHYRON

Monday, April 10, 2006 9:00 PM

Fletch, I totally agree with you. Being a "legal" in Canada, I also have the feeling I signed some of those rights away when I applied for a visa. Can't be bothered to go through my documents to check which ones, but it certainly does seem like a lot of rights to give to non-nationals. Most people would be lucky if their own country gave those rights to its citizens.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

FIVVER

Monday, April 10, 2006 9:11 PM

Of course there is part of the declaration he 'forgot' to mention:

Quote:

Article 2
1. Nothing in this Declaration shall be interpreted as legitimizing the illegal entry into and presence in a State of any alien, nor shall any provision be interpreted as restricting the right of any State to promulgate laws and regulations concerning the entry of aliens and the terms and conditions of their stay or to establish differences between nationals and aliens.

MILAGROBEAN

Monday, April 10, 2006 11:01 PM

My fault, don't go pointing fingers at dear Chrisisall (this is the wifey who shoved the link at him after he'd been working on ungodly number of hours)

Here's the link: http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/o_nonnat.htm

And you forgot the last sentence of that article:

However, such laws and regulations shall not be incompatible with the international legal obligations of that State, including those in the field of human rights.

And the intro to the articles:

Considering that the Charter of the United Nations encourages universal respect for and observance of the human rights and fundamental freedoms of all human beings, without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion,
Considering that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights proclaims that all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights and that everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in that Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status,

Considering that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights proclaims further that everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law, that all are equal before the law and entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law, and that all are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of that Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination,

Being aware that the States Parties to the International Covenants on Human Rights undertake to guarantee that the rights enunciated in these Covenants will be exercised without discrimination of any kind as to race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status,

Conscious that, with improving communications and the development of peaceful and friendly relations among countries, individuals increasingly live in countries of which they are not nationals, Reaffirming the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations,

Recognizing that the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms provided for in international instruments should also be ensured for individuals who are not nationals of the country in which they live

This was pasted from a Salon thread, the poster's a military man who also had this to say:

Quote:
The people marching are marching because they see something happening that is very wrong. They are trying to stop as much of the injustice as they can. Whether they are citizens or not, whether they have "birth-rights" or "guest-rights"

“to what extent should the Constitution protect noncitizens—immigrants, undocumented persons, tourists, foreign students—in the United States”

According to Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, “a citizen is a member of a state to whom he or she owes allegiance and is entitled to its protection.” Hence, from this definition, it is implicit that a non-citizen is someone who is not a member of a state nor owes allegiance to the state he or she currently resides.

And this:

Quote:
'Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!'

As far as the struggles people go through to get to out "beloved" country, I have seen first hand, those who make it easily, who have a life threatening trip, and those who die trying.

These have been Cuban, Haitian, Dominican, Mexican, Central/South American...

I have escorted "boats" (a loose term for some of the vessels), to a safe mooring. I have pulled people from the water, who lived. I have pulled people from the water who died for the chance to be free.

I have been part of a crew who pulled families from dingys, rafts, and floating planks. Where we had to give them medical care, carefully feed them (soft, bland foods) becaus

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